Rewild Your Business, Ep. 1, Vision
Gill Moakes: Hi, I'm Gill Moakes. I'm a business coach and mentor and the host of the Heads Together podcast. I help ambitious, freedom seeking entrepreneurs step into who they really are and create wildly profitable businesses doing what they love. Rewild Your Business on the Stoned Fruit Roll Up is a six part documentary.
It's a reality TV series for business, if you like, where I'll be taking my business bestie, Rebecca Gunter, the founder. Of Stoned Fruit on a journey to define success on her
Rebecca Gunter: terms. Hi everybody. I'm Rebecca Gunter Peach in chief at Stoned Fruit. I'm a brand strategist, developer, and copywriter.
Gill Moakes: I want her to start regenerating time and energy for herself, and we're gonna do that by rewilding her business.
By cutting away what doesn't belong, to allow what does to thrive. The biggest
Rebecca Gunter: challenge in my business right now is how freaking over complicated it is. No one knows what to buy from me. And I need someone to help me clear, clear the forest and help me re, replant the seeds that actually have a functionality and a purpose.
Gill Moakes: So over the next six weeks, we'll be deconstructing the idea that there's only one right way to do business. And my goal is that by the end of the series, Rebecca will be crystal clear and completely confident owning her own unique ecosystem.
Rebecca Gunter: All right. All right. I get to say welcome, welcome everybody in front of the person with whom I'm playing homage to. Today, we're kicking off a six part business building series powered by my irreplaceable and irrepressible business coach, Gill Moakes. She is here for six weeks to Do a little magic, a little Mox magic, if you will, that I affectionately call the Mox magic that is rewilding your business rewilding your business is a concept that I'll, you know, let Gilly speak for herself, but it's something that I've really appreciate.
Latched onto, um, in the past few months in which I'm watching colleagues and clients and folks in which I'm working with, you know, on a regular basis, feel really kind of choked out by complications and kind of all the clutter and noise that can show up in your business, particularly. If you're building the plane while flying, you suddenly look in the cargo deck and there's a ton of stuff back there that you're flying around with, and you're not sure if it has any purpose or, uh, intentionality.
And so this business series is going to kick off a process that Gill calls rewilding, which is such a delicious, delicious word, uh, in which she, uh, has put together a wonderful. Program that helps folks go on kind of this solo journey, uh, deep into the wilds of their own business to clear out what doesn't serve them and cultivate what really is working.
I suspect that this is going to be some very intense work. And I'll be honest, I'm a little nervous about today's episode because the transparency of going live and kind of burying your soul on, on the rock or the stone table, as it were, uh, can be a little bit intimidating. However, Why not? Um, if this inspires other folks to take a hard look at what they're kind of cultivating and growing in their business garden and make some decisions, sometimes easy decisions and sometimes hard decisions about what to weed out, this is how to do it.
So this is the longest intro you'll see in the six week series, setting it all up for us to, uh, enjoy and forthcoming, I shall kind of take a step back and be in the, uh, in the guest seat, as you will, as Gilly is taking over this, the Stoned Fruit roll up in the six weeks and doing her thing, and I'm honored to have her here.
And I'm so excited to jump into it. So without any further ado, and we are going to jump into our episode. So let's do it, y'all.
Gill Moakes: Welcome, welcome to Rewilding Stoned Fruit a little bird told me that you've been quite nervous for this.
Rebecca Gunter: I don't deny it, Gilly. I don't know why, because I'm a heart on my sleeve kind of gal, and I've been live streaming all of my foibles at live streaming, all kind of along the journey, and I'm quite transparent in my writing, and I'm quite Um, I'm quite raw in coaching sessions, et cetera, with my own clients and also with you.
But for some reason, I feel like I'm either going to pick out my prom dress or my casket. I can't decide.
Gill Moakes: Definitely prom dress, prom dress, prom dress, a hundred percent. So I just want to start off by thanking you so much for giving me this amazing platform. I absolutely love Stoned Fruit Roll Up. I've been on as a guest a few times now, which has been fantastic, and it felt like such a natural Platform to have a bit of an experiment and, uh, you in your fabulous introduction gave a nod to that experimental vibe that goes on here.
I mean, the entire concept of this show was very experimental. It was very disruptive in your absolute inimitable style. And it feels like this is an experiment. So rewild your business is an offer in the making. It's a concept that I have been thinking about for a long time. It's something that I have done in my own business, so I know it works.
I have the proven concept in that I did it in my business, and it worked incredibly well for me.
Rebecca Gunter: You seem so happy since you've embarked on this process for yourself.
Gill Moakes: I feel so happy. I feel so different about my business and I'll share a bit about that in a minute because actually there was a, it took a little dip for me to do this and come out the other side thinking, Oh my God, why didn't I do this sooner?
This is exactly what my business needed. My business needed some time and space for me. And the concept really for Reworld Your Business is for it to be a solo activity. This is deep work where you're going to be asking yourself some really fundamental and foundational questions about the future of your business.
And it's really going to be designed as something you go away and do on your own. Ideally, you jet off to Bali and do it. I mean, if that's not in the budget, then you put a do not disturb sign on the door. But either way, it's you're carving out time in your calendar to do this deep work. And. What we're doing together now is an experiment.
It's really, um, it's a test of concept on someone other than my own business. So this is a way for me now to run you through the process. So we're doing a bit of a live validation exercise, which for anyone I work with knows that I am all about validating an offer before you start trying to sell it. You know, you need to have beta testers.
You need to get feedback. And all of that kind of thing. So it's very aligned the way we're doing this. It's also really valuable for you right now. I think for Stoned Fruit, I think this is a perfect time for you to do it.
Rebecca Gunter: I'm already crying. I wore my waterproof makeup on purpose. It's deep.
Gill Moakes: It's deep work.
And I'm, I'm making no apology for that. And the good thing is that doing it together, this is also, this is one of the reasons why I think this. This is solo work, actually, now that doesn't detract from us doing it together because there's going to be deep work you're going to be doing in between our episodes, but it is deep work.
Like I said, don't make any apology for that. And the reason that I think the deep work is so important and it's so important to have that time and space to do it and be reflective and be really open to going deep with yourself around what's still true, what was true once and now isn't, what used to be the dream and now isn't, what hasn't turned out the way you wanted it to, what is there still to go for, you know.
That actually has been put on the back burner so many times that you've, you've stopped counting, you know, this is work that actually we do a ton of when we're, we're in startup mode, when we're getting ready to get ready. And then our business is suddenly, you know, three, five years old. And we're not going that deep anymore.
Suddenly, all we do at the end of each year is plan for the next year. But we plan from the place where we are. What I'm saying is that if you can introduce this regular period of rewilding into your business of really looking at everything and saying, is this in its natural habitat? Does this belong here anymore?
Does this need to be cleared away to allow something else in? Then I think we end up with a more profitable business. A business that fulfills us more, a business that we love again, a business that no longer overwhelms us. Because that's one of the things that rewilding your business brings in is simplicity.
Now this is where I want to bring you in because this is something that you have always struggled with. And I know that. So this is another reason why I thought, Oh my goodness, you would be such a perfect person to. Go through this rewarding experience because I know this will help you.
Rebecca Gunter: Gilly, you know I'll overcomplicate water.
Given half a chance. I come by it naturally, though. My mom is an overcomplicator. So, the nut didn't fall too far from the tree. Yeah. So I definitely
Gill Moakes: need your help. You come from a long line of overcomplications.
Rebecca Gunter: It's, it's, it's based in this beautiful strategy though, as you're kind of forecasting what kind of moves can I make to manifest or facilitate an outcome?
And you get pretty clever at all those little pieces that you can move and then you stop looking for the simplest solution. And so as a result, you know, I have 12 different logos and six different Uh, projects, visibility projects, kind of concurrently going, um, starts, some stops, I'm overwhelmed, I'm only working on client work, then I'm burnt out, I, I have no clear, I've overcomplicated myself into a maze, I believe.
Gill Moakes: And this is so common. It's so common. It's actually, and like I said, this is why this is work that you do when you're a few years in. This isn't what happens at the beginning. At the beginning of a business, you don't tend to do that. It's layers of complexity that happen over the first few years of owning a business or longer, um, layers of complexity creep in and it's like a stranglehold on what you're trying to do.
And I do think that. You know, there are some, some motivations for overcomplicating things are really from a good place and some not so. So the overcomplicating things when it is that you are desperate to give your client the most. Outcome. Those are fantastic. And actually those are the ones that we want to look at really carefully and see what we want to keep.
The overcomplications that I like to really start with rewilding are the ones where your motivation is for. You to feel satisfied that you're being clever, that you're being different, that you're being, um, different for different sake, particularly, you know, that's one of my favorite ones to look at because that's not always in the client's favor.
Rebecca Gunter: I feel seen. Don't at me, girl. That is 100%. Right on the, right on the head for me. Right. I'll, I'll also share that some of my overcomplications, and I think this is a common problem, is that some of those overcomplications, I don't know what's the anguish ivy and what's the sweet pea vine. What is Stoned Fruit and what is Rebecca Gunter herself?
So not only have I overcomplicated my business, whatever that actually means, but I've also kind of choked out both sides. So they're both impotent. They're both anemic. Neither one of them is getting the sunlight or the nurturing that they need. That's right.
Gill Moakes: Yeah. Yeah, and I think, I'm so glad that you mentioned that because this is another thing that's so common.
So we separate ourselves quite sensibly and have, um, our business and then stuff that we do under our personal brand, if you like. But the problem is often we'll then get very muddy and confused about who does what and Are you working for your business? Are you working in your business? Um, should you be doing solo projects?
Etc. And I think that it's another layer of complexity so part of What we're going to be doing this week in this first episode, where we're going to be talking about your vision is we're going to really start peeling that back and trying to get crystal clear on what it is you really want. So Rebecca, what are examples of how you've overcomplicated?
Yeah, I'd love you to share some of those with us.
Rebecca Gunter: I think a very good example of how I've overcomplicated my business was to drive through the idea that people would really enjoy getting a service experience that is part digital course. Part hospitality, part nurture sequence, part done with you, part done for you.
So already I got way too many parts. And so I built an offer inside Kajabi for positioning and messaging. And it has like six components to it. There's the service model component to it, to just the, what, what can you expect when going through this experience? And each one of those has a module. And then if you click more, you get an email that supports that.
Plus there's a nurture sequence that goes along with it for logistics and one for cheerleading. And by the end of the day, you've got a very lengthy. Kind of overcomplicated offer that truly is three sessions. I've got the work of it down so tight, so efficient, so effective. I know exactly how many sessions it takes, what the work is going to look like, what the steps of service are, and in an.
And in an effort to be extremely clever and to set the onboarding client up for, you know, full transparency of what to expect. I've thrown the kitchen sink full of information at them and zero people are clicking by on that offer. And if they did, they'd probably want to gouge their eyes out with a Kajabi pencil.
That's one very sharp and Kajabi pencils, one very clear way.
Gill Moakes: That is a perfect example of where you have had the best interest of your client at heart. So you started explaining that by saying, I thought clients would like an experience. That was part this part that your motivation was spot on. It was trying to do something right for your client.
But the problem was that actually. It wasn't necessarily what your clients would like. It's what you like because you understand it. You get it. You love the cleverness of it. You love the different approach. Client doesn't actually give a shit about any of that because what the client wants is positioning and messaging.
And what the client wants is to sell more via really good positioning and really good messaging. So anything that dilutes or disrupts their understanding of what they're buying is a blocker. Makes sense to you? Uh,
Rebecca Gunter: yeah. Too much sense, I'll say. You're absolutely right. It's a blocker. When people are confused, they walk away.
And I've done a very good job at being extremely confusing. In this offer and then certainly in, in other, uh, and that's just one example of how I overcomplicate things.
Gill Moakes: Yeah. And it's just one example, but it's a really good example because it came from, it comes from or everything you do comes from such a good place, but it isn't in what you think is in your client's best interest isn't always.
And then that, that fires on you, and it's so unfair because like I say, you came at it from a really great place. You came at it from the exact place I would coach you to come at it from.
Rebecca Gunter: The struggle for me in, in, in, you know, in defense of it, and it's not defendable, it's not viable. We've, we've already, we've already put it on the, put it, put its head on a spike.
But in defense of it. Yeah, but tell me anyway. It's, you know, the struggle is always I sell something that people don't know they need that solves a problem. They don't know they have. And so the more information I could throw at like. What is positioning and why is the value of going through this exercise?
And why should you have it facilitated? Seemed like I needed to just enrobe the experience with education and understanding and all I've done is create confusion. So
Gill Moakes: two things I want to pick apart there. The first one is that. That is a story that you tell yourself repeatedly that this is something that they don't know they want.
They do know your clients know what they want. They want to sell more and they want to have great messaging. They may not know that this thing called positioning is what they need, but they know what they want. Your job is to package what you do in words that resonate, the words they would use for it, whatever it is.
Your clients, when they first come to you, don't know what positioning is. Positioning is a word that exists in the brand arena and nowhere else. One outside of the brand industry. So clients don't know what positioning is and aren't really interested because they're not in the brand industry. They don't care.
They want the outcome that position give positioning gives them.
Rebecca Gunter: What does that stem from? Do you think is it insecurity that I feel I have to lean on a tool or a formula or a, I mean, to be fair, positioning is my framework. It is how I come up with messaging. It is the exercise. It's not going anywhere.
It's just kind of, what is it that is causing this disconnect? Am I just leaning on it because of insecurity where I can't articulate the value of it? I
Gill Moakes: think, and I share this opinion with you, but I'm kind of more, maybe a step into understanding where this. Disconnect is I think you love the concept of positioning and you are so familiar with that word that that's what it is for you that it is positioning for me it is because you introduced me to this concept.
And I now love positioning, and you know that I don't do anything without, I don't ever launch a new offer, I don't ever work on a new program, or launch my podcast, or anything like that without you positioning it for me, because you are the best there is at doing it. But you and I knew each other, and you educated me, I already knew what it was.
So the disconnect is when Someone, here's what it boils down to. So let's rewild this. This is what it boils down to. People are coming into your world and telling you what they want, which is, they want messaging. They want words that sell. That's what people want. And they want a brand that is a bit different, a bit, really stands out.
They want messaging that stands out. That's what they want. What you're doing is saying, okay, I hear that that's what you want, but here's what you need. You need positioning. You can't sell people what they need. You have to sell them what they want. You deliver them what they need, but you have to sell them what they want.
So that, I think, is the simplest way of looking at the disconnect.
Rebecca Gunter: Why does that make me feel sad?
Gill Moakes: Makes you feel sad? Hmm. Why do you think it
Rebecca Gunter: makes you feel sad? That's why I'm asking this big question. It's just a word. You have a point. It's just reframing. Repositioning, if you will. But for some reason, hearing you say that makes me sad.
And I don't know if it's, like, the loss of all this time I've spent kind of beating that drum, or that's my baby. Positioning is my baby, like, how dare you say that about my baby? My baby is not ugly. Maybe it's
Gill Moakes: that. Positioning isn't your baby, it's your secret sauce. It's your secret ingredient. It's your kernel flipping, what's the KFC kernel?
Rebecca Gunter: I'm gonna pretend like I don't know immediately. Colonel Sanders. Yeah, that's it. I love, I love, you know, I love KFC girl.
Gill Moakes: Right, it's positioning. is your secret recipe. It's why your messaging is so freaking good. It's why I can spot a mile off when it, there is copy out there that you have written because it jumps off the page.
It's why when you actually do position someone because don't forget I'm not telling you that that's not what you're going to be delivering. It is what you're going to be delivering. It's still your secret sauce. It's your method. It's your magic method, but it isn't what people want. It's what they need.
So when we come down in a few episodes time of our rewilding, and we're starting to talk about marketing, this is going to be really important to come back to this because we're going to have to lose that word.
Rebecca Gunter: Well, we better lose it before we publish any books or write any Well,
Gill Moakes: no, all we do is change the title we change the title or we change the tagline
Rebecca Gunter: fair enough See, I'm being a baby about it when it makes me sad.
I don't know why however for the folks at home like this is personal and you may have just been attached to what you want to be known for and Yeah
Gill Moakes: What those words are perfect segue that you've just given me there What do you want to be known for? This is the episode where we're going to talk about vision.
Rebecca Gunter: What do
Gill Moakes: you want to be known for?
Rebecca Gunter: My, my, my normal answer to that is I want to be known for positioning. So that means nothing to anybody other than me.
Gill Moakes: So I'm going to say that you're not allowed to use that word, but I still want you use the concept, but not the word. So how would you describe it?
Rebecca Gunter: It seems like such a long
Gill Moakes: I want.
I'm going to set you up as well. I want to be known for getting people to, I want you to finish it from
Rebecca Gunter: there, see their true, fully realized value immediately recognize it, see it. Like you, Gilly, a lot of people who go through this process with me had no idea that that's what the articulation would look like.
So it's not like I'm taking them from like, you know, the words in science, we just have to get there. There is a kind of. Ah, like a super aha moment. It's like having your makeup done, you know, by a professional and you spin and your hair done, they spin you around in a chair and you're like, I didn't even know I could be so gorgeous.
Like that moment is truly what I want to be known for. How you articulate that or how it's not called something different. But like, That reveal in the mirror. Keep
Gill Moakes: going. I want you to keep going.
Rebecca Gunter: Okay. That reveal in the mirror. Yeah. That is the reason that I want people to refer me or refer the work that I do, is that you, you, you were, you're in a pivot.
Or you're making a change or you're allowing yourself to reimagine things differently, or you have a full recognition that you just kind of really sound like everybody else who's out here and around you. I know that's the copywriter's mantra of like, stop sounding like everyone else, but truly it does happen when we're kind of ensconced in buzzwords and things like positioning.
Um, to really See your full, true, articulated value and to be able to step into that by presenting a digital, doesn't even have to be digital, but by presenting a branded experience that is steeped in deeply meaningful words. Why does
Gill Moakes: that matter? What does it allow people to do? Why does that matter?
Rebecca Gunter: Oh my gosh.
It allows people to stop. So cliche, Julia, but like stop playing small. Stop living by someone else's definition of success. Which is exactly what we're doing here. So the cobbler's children have no shoes. But to give yourself permission to step into something that feels wildly, intimately You and no one else could ever give you those.
I don't know. That doesn't even make sense. No one else could give you those words. Makes complete sense. Well, for me to say no one else could give you those words and then like, and buy a copy from me kind of sounds like a disconnect. But I, I, Oh,
Gill Moakes: hang on though. That is a disconnect. Because your, your main gift to people is not the words.
Your gift. It's extracting the knowledge from the person's head to get to the words.
Rebecca Gunter: I think Zach Bordeaux, Dozer Dog Designs, said it really brilliantly once, which was, you don't know what you're, what you don't know, but Rebecca shows you what you do know. And there's just something profoundly. I love that.
Beautiful in there because if you don't know it, then how can you possibly articulate it? And it takes a facilitator to really. Get to know you on just an intimate level and ask the kind of questions that produce the kind of answers that allow for this articulation and to really get to the heart of the matter for you.
Who are your people? What do they need? Who are you? What do you deliver? Why are you special, different, or the one? I want people to be able to answer those five questions. Without skipping a beat or feeling like it's not true. And the art of working with me is to bring that stuff out and then to own it, to step into your positioning statement to you.
I'm not allowed to use that word anymore to step into your, um, articulation of your reputation and bring it to life and really take a full breath within that and become. Instantly recognizable. I that's what I want for people. Oh, that's that's that bad bitch right there That's that bad bitch right there.
That's that bad bitch right there. I need her on my team
Gill Moakes: Exactly what you do. The first time you ever positioned my business, I had no idea what was going to come out. And when it did, I burst into tears. Because you, more than anyone ever has, and I've been coach. You know, I'm a coach and I always have a coach.
And more than anyone else, that conversation with you, opened my eyes to what I actually did for people. And there was something so expansive about hearing it come from you in these words that I never would have been able to get from my brain. But equally, you wouldn't have been able to get them if you hadn't asked me all of the right questions to get to those words.
So, it, that's so right. I love what he said. Because it is, it, it's about not knowing. You don't know what you Don't know, but you get out of people what they do know on some level, which is coaching. Let's face it. That is coaching. And it's so powerful in the context in which you do it,
Rebecca Gunter: but we're kind of back to that story.
I have again of solving a problem. You don't know you have with a solution. You don't know you need. And earlier in this episode, you said that's a story you tell yourself, and I don't disagree with you, but this is why I tell myself that story.
Gill Moakes: Yeah. Can you see, are you open to exploring that it might be a story
Rebecca Gunter: that you're telling yourself?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. What would I rather have, Gilly? I'm going to be really real with you and the Stoned Fruit audience. Uh. Having a waltz with a story, or actually being able to exhale because I've finally gotten the stability that I've been craving. I think I'll choose exhale, even if it bruises my ego by popping that story like a balloon.
Gill Moakes: Yeah, I think it would be so worth it. Because I think it's the barrier that's holding you back. And I think there's some ego attached to it. I think there's some, definitely some ego. And we're coming up with, we're going into kind of, and this is really common when we're trying to think about vision. We go into trying to problem solve.
And that's not what really examining your vision is about. So I'm going to just pull us back. To thinking about forgetting problems, forgetting barriers, limiting beliefs, all of that kind of thing, thinking back to when you started, why was it important to you? Why this business?
Rebecca Gunter: It's something I can do really well without.
Hating it . He just essentially
Gill Moakes: kept it something I can do really well without hating
Rebecca Gunter: it. Yeah. Do you love it? That's how I hating it. I do love it. I, I feel blessed. I feel hashtag blessed every day. I do absolutely love it. I think, I mean, there are other things I can do. Well, I can bake a very good cake, so, you know, that's something I can do for money.
There's a lot. Exactly. I certainly don't want, I, I don't want a bakery. It sounds awful. I think I'd hate baking cakes after that. This I want. So I definitely want it. It's not just an accidental Entrepreneurship. It took me many iterations of forgiving myself for not wanting to do like general marketing management or learning everything I need to know about SEO like letting all of that go or you know investing in Am I the best conversion copywriter?
Am I an email copywriter? Am I this kind of thing, just kind of letting all that go and just stepping into this full, kind of half coaching, half done for you copywriting that feels done with you strategically? I don't know, it's just
Gill Moakes: Well, I want to pull on that thread. I want to pull on that thread. So this is, so this concept of a hybrid coaching and delivery of copy.
That sounds pretty irresistible for a business owner who wants to be more visible and make more sales. One of the two things those people probably need, coaching and messaging. I would argue that there are two things really worth investing in, in your business. And those are coaching and messaging, copywriting.
If you're no good at it.
Rebecca Gunter: Some people are like you, Gilly. You're awesome at it.
Gill Moakes: Thank you. But I love writing. I absolutely love it. I don't think I'm the best writer in the world, but I really enjoy it. So it's kind of like, yeah, that's all that matters. Do a lot of my own, even things like paid advertising come.
Come in a pale third to messaging, paid advertising. People always think, you know, that's a good place to spend their money to grow their business. Paid advertising only amplifies what already works. So if your messaging is off, no amount of paid advertising is going to get you more sales. So like I say, the coaching, so I would argue that positioning is coaching.
Rebecca Gunter: I would argue with that as well. We co create that together and then I'd cheerlead you to use it.
Gill Moakes: Coaching. Positioning is coaching. That's exactly what the experience feels like and I know. I've gone through it with you several times.
Rebecca Gunter: It's not the first time I've heard that, actually. Oh,
Gill Moakes: really? That's interesting. That's
Rebecca Gunter: the most valuable piece. So that doesn't feel alien to you. No, and I agree. Particularly if I have a client who loves the ideas and the messaging and the evergreen kind of aspect to kind of, Baking positioning or baking, like, where are people?
What do they need? Who am I? What do I deliver? Why is special different than one into their entire marketing mix and weaving the golden threads of, of the words that we've come up with together to put things forth. The evergreen stuff like I'll name a conference and it'll be that name of that conference will stand year after year after year after year or I'll create core values and I see them six years later.
I'm still seeing taglines that I created. However, not everything is a great fit. Had clients where it probably should have been a different copywriter creating their email marketing because of whatever reason I'm not nailing it. But what they loved it. Was all of this other stuff that helped them talk about their business.
So there are times where they don't go hand in hand. It is a sweet spot when they do though, because I truly love being on the creative side of it as well as the coaching side of it.
Gill Moakes: I, and I hear that and I think there will always be a part, I, I get the feeling from you that you're going to always want to be involved in that part for some clients.
And I think that's perfect. But with Stoned Fruit, your business, you have this amazing opportunity. To have that be a delivery vehicle for the bit that comes after the coaching. And so I suppose where I'm at with this in terms of your vision for the business, and I just want to run this by you and see how it lands with you.
What if the offer was, well, help, you know, if you want to grow a business. If you want to grow a business that's really aligned with your values and feels good to you, where you're getting to do what you love,
Rebecca Gunter: let me coach
Gill Moakes: you. Let me coach you and get out from you what that could look like. Let's take off the limiting beliefs.
Let's really get to the bottom of what that could look like. And then let me take you to the next step via Stoned Fruit, which is where you get the words, the messaging, that are the very essence of making it happen. Can you see where you, you can totally remove the positioning word from, from it because it is essentially positioning, but it's so much more than that.
And I also think that another limiting thing for you is the, formula for positioning. Who are you? You know, you, that rolls off your tongue so quickly. And it is so true. It, all of it is so true. So powerful. But what you do is so much more than creating a sentence and I sometimes wonder if that reduces the perception of the value of what this exercising, this coaching exercise, this deep coaching exercise actually is.
Rebecca Gunter: Fair. Stern but fair.
Gill Moakes: Tough to hear. Tough.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah. Why though? Why do you think it's tough to hear? I
Gill Moakes: think it's tough to hear because you have ego attached to it. It's your, it's The thing that you have developed as a concept to such a level that other people quote you on it, which they do, I do, you know, I know other people that have worked with you now go on to quote that to their clients.
Um, and the reason for that is it's all completely valid. It's completely valid. But when it comes to your business and talking about what you do. I think it limits you.
Rebecca Gunter: Because it seems like I'm just producing a widget? Or because no one can believe the power of a single sentence?
Gill Moakes: Both yes and yes. And I think it's, it's actually, it is formulaic in that you need to be able to answer those questions. And it's powerful to have that sentence. But what comes out of that session is so much more.
It's all the conversation and coaching that happens to get to that sentence. It's all of the messaging that comes out that doesn't make it into that final sentence. It's the experience is so much bigger than the sentence. And. I, I think that is why it's limiting.
Rebecca Gunter: So you're saying, Hey Rebecca, it's the process, not the product.
Quit beating your drum for the product.
Gill Moakes: It's the process. That is the perfect, perfect That is a rewilded way of saying it. Positioning is the process. Not the product.
Rebecca Gunter: So creating an entirely overcomplicated Kajabi onboarding experience for the product is problematic, not only for how choked out it is with elements and pieces that would overwhelm someone, but it also misses the point.
Gill Moakes: Correct.
Rebecca Gunter: Okay. So the
Gill Moakes: vision, coming back to the vision and we'll come to that, we will. I promise you we're going to come and get into those weeds with the delivery and the angle to come from. But I want to bring us back again to the vision. The vision of the business you want. And I know you find this difficult to answer.
So I'm going to push you again. I'm going to ask you a question that I think might help. What is it about you? That makes people feel good about themselves.
Rebecca Gunter: Wow, that's so interesting.
Gill Moakes: Good question, right? It's a really deep question to think about.
Rebecca Gunter: Um, wow. I think that it is because I'm able to center People for this kind of fixed amount of time and hold, it sounds so cliche, hold space for them so they can explore without feeling vulnerable. Like all that's not cliched
Gill Moakes: at all. That doesn't sound cliched at all. That sounds to me like exactly what people who come to you want.
And need.
Rebecca Gunter: They want to, like, get undressed. Yes, they do! They
Gill Moakes: want to be heard and seen.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah, is that what you're trying to get me to? Instead of, I'm in the dressing room with an analogy? Again, overcomplicating water? Yeah, I think they want to be. What can we add to this
Gill Moakes: H2O formula?
Rebecca Gunter: Exactly. What if we added an extra molecule?
Only it wasn't a molecule. It was, um, something we borrowed from this other industry. Wouldn't that be interesting? Yes, it would be. I think people want to be seen and heard. And I agree. You're absolutely right. And if I'm being utterly transparent with you, I don't think a lot of people can hold, can really hold the space open for someone to be seen and heard and still feel safe without knowing me intimately.
I'm able to get here on the first meeting. It doesn't take. Three months of onboarding until you finally feel like you can tell me the truth. There is something about the way that I conduct these sessions that just lays a groundwork and an environment of total transparency and saying, You know, saying the parts that scare you out loud and being like, I feel weird saying that, but it's kind of true.
Like you can, your ego has a seat. It's allowed to be here. In fact, I'd like to, I'd like to see a little bit of that ego. I want it to be in the room with us so that we can, you know, create so that other people can see and hear you as well. Not just me. I don't know if that makes sense,
Gill Moakes: Gilly. Every single word of that made complete sense.
I think you've just spoken the absolute truth of what it is about you that makes people feel amazing. That makes people feel seen and heard and understood and valid. And capable and empowered and set free, set free to step into the actual business that they want that set set them free to step into the actual brand that they want to embody.
I think that every word you said is absolutely right. I think that's exactly what you do. And the tool you use to do that, one of the tools you use to do that is what you've been calling positioning. Thoughts on that.
Rebecca Gunter: Um, I guess my immediate thing is, well, how do you product a size that and maybe the answer is a coaching program, but I'm sure we'll get there down the line.
You're skipping ahead. I'm skipping ahead.
Gill Moakes: Classic me. Classic me. I'm going to keep pulling you back to the vision for this entire episode now.
Rebecca Gunter: Okay, I'm ready to
Gill Moakes: be pulled. Now that you know that about yourself, now that you know that that there is something about you. Makes people feel that way. Okay. Stay with that for a moment.
The next question I want to ask you is what is it about the work you do that makes you feel good about yourself?
Rebecca Gunter: I love a world where we can be ourselves. Really. It's refreshing to me too. Watch,
get emotion. It's refreshingly delicious to watch people be who they are unapologetically. And I know that's another cliche. When one of my clients who perhaps was framing them, you know, in this kind of limited sound, the same way goes through this process and then owns, totally owns this space. And starts to talk in this way of like, you know, this is me, like Superman chest out or superwoman chest out or super non binary chest out, whatever, you know, whatever your chest is out and to start walking in that like tallness, taking up space intentionally.
Just owning even the quirkiest aspect of themselves and their brand and having other people be like, Ga ga, I want that for me. I wish I wrote that. I wish I thought of that. I wish I had the bravery to step out and be that. When I see more and more people showing up in the business arena who were not kind of playing corporate light, but instead, you know, kind of planting a stake in the ground and being like, I own this aspect of it and I don't have to do anything more than be brilliant at this.
And other people are like, shut up and take my money. That is awesome. When calls to action are hated.
Gill Moakes: How does that make you feel when you've been instrumental in making that happen?
Rebecca Gunter: I had a client, um, redo kind of step way out of a career that they were traditionally in and into their family foundation.
And one of the things in the very beginning, I was like, Oh, Rebecca, we need more volunteers. It's a nonprofit. We need more volunteers. And we re, you know, we branded it. We put forth a website. We, I wrote a whole beautiful landing page for volunteers and a nurture sequence around that. And she picked up the phone after the website had been launched three weeks and said, we got our first volunteer directly from the website.
Like to me. Like, case closed. So satisfying that it worked. It
Gill Moakes: was satisfying. Yes. Satisfying. You were joyful for them. I can see that because you were like, yeah. We did the thing. It filled you with joy. It was satisfying. It made you happy. Did it make you feel proud of yourself?
Rebecca Gunter: Oh, hell yeah. I did that. I converted somebody.
I got them a volunteer when that was a pain
Gill Moakes: point. Look what I just did. Look what I just did.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah, I mean, I guess if I were in a public, you know, if I were talking to my auntie, I'd say wee, but it does feel like, look what I did. It does feel like that. The thing I got you, you said you wanted to volunteer.
Here it is. And maybe there's that people pleaser aspect of like being more influential and impactful and just kind of proving yourself over and over again. Maybe that's a limiting belief on my own, but because it helps other people, I feel good about it.
Gill Moakes: People pleasing is one of those things that is a bit like, uh, like shiny object syndrome that, you know, I always say, you know, we all get bullied about our shiny object syndrome.
I think it's the same thing happens with people pleasing. Wanting to please people is not a bad thing. It is only Problematic when you take it so far that it is really very detrimental to yourself. So if you are constantly putting other people before yourself and you're suffering as a result of that, then it's problematic.
If, however, part of what lights you up and gives you joy about what you do is pleasing people. I'm the biggest people pleaser in the world then, because, like, that's one of my massive goals, is to please people. I'm absolutely okay with that. And I think you'll love, you'll very much like me on that.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah, um, if I were honest with you, there is some definite people pleasing at the detriment of myself sometimes. But that comes in scope creed. Over delivering, those are the things I do that are kind of
Gill Moakes: And those things we're going to look at for sure in, uh, some of these episodes, because those are all the things that we can, can make decisions about on this, over these six weeks.
Uh, we're gonna really look at all of those kinds of things. And what do we want to start leaving behind now? Because we're going to be so focused on what we're trying to achieve. So I just wanna, I know we've got a couple of minutes left and I just wanted
Rebecca Gunter: to really I don't mind, I don't mind going over if you don't.
I'm just saying. Oh,
Gill Moakes: I don't mind going over if you don't. I didn't know whether we had a hard stop. If we can go over a bit, I would really like to, because I would really love. to pull some of these threads together now around what we're speaking about. So hashtag
Rebecca Gunter: threads together. Hashtag threads together.
Gill Moakes: Um, so I want to recap a little bit and then I want to make some time as well to quickly go into the comments because I know we've got some comments that I want to pick up on too. But I want to put up some of the threads of what we've talked about today to see whether there's some clarity coming around.
The vision of what you might want this business to look like. I think, um, one of the biggest takeaways, and it actually came from you, not me, which is slightly annoying, is that positioning is the process, not the product. And if we accept that, then I think what I'm seeing, and I'm going to be interested if this is in line with what you're thinking about, but what I'm seeing is a very specialist coaching experience for the kind of clients you work with, the disruptors of the world, the people who are Yeah.
A stand, you know, the people who wanna make a stand for what they believe in, um, you know, some of those people even dunno it themselves yet , you know, these are people that you'll bring it out of them, which is, you know, just part of what you do. But I think there's, it's definitely a deep coaching experience.
I also think it's around creating messaging strategy. I think you are, I think you're an amazing messaging strategist. And I see those two things as perhaps sitting with you. And in terms of Stoned Fruit, which is, um, you know, the, the delivery vehicle for some of the, uh, messaging products, I think You know, that's where I see those things sitting.
I see Stoned Fruit as having the ability to sell some DIY products around copy and messaging. Um, but also some kind of off the shelf, if you need an email sequence, if you need this, you need that. You know, I think that comes separately and is, is a lower ticket items that are sold off the shelf under the Stoned Fruit umbrella.
I think you, as Rebecca Gunter, the writer, the coach and writer, which is what you are. I think you're a coach, a writer, and a messaging strategist. That's my vision. And I'm really, I don't want to impose that on you, but I know you well enough to be able to kind of share that with you, that that's where I'm thinking.
Rebecca Gunter: It's appreciated. You turn that mirror around, girl. Go ahead. Take that mirror I'm normally holding up and turn it around. I'm here for it. Well, let me ask you a question, though. Why is it, in your opinion, and I'm not saying it is or isn't, so I'm literally just asking you. Why does that kind of coach writing and messaging strategy not sit in the catbird seat at Stoned Fruit as like an agency?
Why are there, why are there two separate things?
Gill Moakes: Oh! Yeah, so you misunderstood me. I think everything should be inside Stoned Fruit. Stoned Fruit is your business. It's the name of your business. Interesting. Just let it, let it, let Stoned Fruit be your business. I have, I think I've said this to you before, I think the only thing that Rebecca Gunter should have her name to is your personal writing.
You know, when the book comes, you're going to have an author platform, absolutely. But I think your business is Stoned Fruit.
Rebecca Gunter: For so for the last six months, I've been thinking we're trying to separate like high ticket retainer clients and like low ticket accessibility And it means for me An email list over here a website here.
Um email list here website here youtube channel here youtube channel there and I just It's just springing up for me, like, is this a unified effort, or am I creating two different things, and why would I create two different things, or why wouldn't I create two different things? Why
Gill Moakes: can Stoned Fruit just, not just be your business?
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah, why can't Stoned Fruit just be my business? Well, girl, um,
Gill Moakes: no,
Rebecca Gunter: please do, because then I can keep going. Welcome. Welcome.
Gill Moakes: So, so, but to your point, I think you use some complicated language around Stoned Fruit. And this is because you had a very complicated vision for it at the beginning, which was this retail skin, um, on a brand agency.
Um, you know, all of these things, which were clever concepts, which you delighted in. I want you to rewild it. I want you to strip away all of the complexity around that. And I just want Stoned Fruit to be a company. That has offers. A company that sells things.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah, wouldn't that be nice?
Gill Moakes: Wouldn't that? How freeing would that feel if it was literally just a company, finds out what its clients want, and delivers that to them?
Um, it just doesn't have to be this. The logistics and set up the company, that doesn't have to be the clever bit. You are so clever in what you do. You're so talented and skillful in what you do, in what you deliver and how you make your clients feel. That's where the cleverness comes in. Wouldn't it be a relief to let go of the need to overcomplicate?
The skin of the business, the delivery vehicle, the 13 different email sequences, you know, couldn't it feel lighter to just let it be a business that's very, very simply transforms other people's businesses? That's what you do. Yeah, it would
Rebecca Gunter: feel good, but I would have to trust it. Yes, you will. I would have to trust it.
I would have to trust that that could sustain me financially. I would have to trust that people will buy into that brand and not my name because I've been out here peddling this shingle for 20 years under my name and have built a reputation. I would have to trust it. Why would you? And that is. That is, like
Gill Moakes: Where's your name going?
Rebecca Gunter: Um
Gill Moakes: So you're not going to call yourself Rebecca Gunter anymore?
Rebecca Gunter: Well Yes, I'm still going to do that. I'm keeping my
Gill Moakes: name. Hi, my name's Stoned Fruit. How can I help you? You're still Rebecca Gunther. Stoned Fruit is the name of your company. You're still going to have high ticket retainer clients. You're still going to blow your high ticket clients away like you do right now.
Yeah. But you're going to give yourself more options. This is the thing. And this is why at the moment, yes, you've got your retainer client, you know, yes, you are a successful entrepreneur, but you have so much potential with this Stoned Fruit vehicle that at the moment it's like it's kind of been parked up in some like yard somewhere.
And it's got like Ivy growing
Rebecca Gunter: over it. See where exactly what's English Ivy and what's sweet pea. Yeah. I think that there is something to unpack there, Gilly, really. Um, personally, why is it parked up on four wheels? And why
Gill Moakes: is It's so complicated that you don't know what to do with it. You don't even know what it is.
Rebecca Gunter: Damn! You're right. I don't. Right? You're right. I don't. In fact, our logo says marketing, and to your point, I don't think it's marketing at all. I
Gill Moakes: don't think it's marketing.
Rebecca Gunter: No. I think what I think the products That's comfortable.
Gill Moakes: That, that Stoned Fruit sell can be used in marketing, will be used in marketing rather.
But it's not a marketing agency, it's messaging, it's words, it's copy. It's not even a brand agency. Let it be what it wants to be. Let it sell the things that people want from you. And you know what people want from you.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah. Damn you limiting beliefs.
Gill Moakes: Damn you, you limited print. Sign up
Rebecca Gunter: homework for you. That's exciting.
Gill Moakes: It's quite easy. All I want you to do is write down some kind of vision statement for the business. I just want you to write down what it's the business you actually want. So in that I want you to include what your role is in the business.
Is there anyone else in the business? You know, where do you work from? Is it, do you want to carry a work phone? Do you want an office? I don't think you do. I think you're very happy where you are. But those kinds of things, I want you to think about what is the bigger vision for the business that you want to actually.
At the end of this process, because once you've got clear on that, we can work back from that, but we can't do it the other way around. We can't set goals and create a business model and, you know, create a marketing strategy, etc. If we don't know what we're trying to, we don't know what the end result is supposed to look like.
Rebecca Gunter: I think the struggle there for me and for many other people, and this isn't, yeah, this isn't a but and but, yep, absolutely, we're totally going to do that. Yep. I'm going to work really hard on my vision statement and reimagine it. I think the hold up for me and has, again, As an experience of other people is I need to create something that will keep me from being homeless.
There's such a money, like, uh, just to kind of, I guess it's a scarcity mindset around, like, I need to create something that brings in revenue so that I can, you know, um, have gas in my tank to take my kids to school. And, you know,
Gill Moakes: The problem with that is that you are therefore going to create the vision of the business you believe is available to you, which may not, you don't know if that's the best option for you.
So it's very limiting to come at it from that angle. Now, don't get me wrong. If you can put together the vision of the business you actually want, and if we Take that and look at it next week and start putting goals around that and talking about it and tweaking that vision together next week alongside setting the goals, you know, it will be obvious if there are things in there that are really a non starter, but I will guarantee if you try and do this from the position of I can only choose a vision.
That I already know will work. Then at the end of the six weeks, you'll have the exact business you have right now.
Rebecca Gunter: Which works ish. It works ish. But it
Gill Moakes: gives us the vision of the business
Rebecca Gunter: you want. It's just enough to keep my nose here. And something I could not walk away from. Take a break from expand or innovate.
It just keeps me here in survival mode. Uh, and so building something with that, like impetus of, I just need to not be homeless. Or unhoused, is the modern vernacular, only produces something that barely, in my case, maybe other people were able to hit the target, but in my case, that barely works in that
Gill Moakes: way.
Correct. Enough. And that's what you're setting yourself up for. Here's the thing. You're not making a decision with this, but you have to know what you want. Because you could be really surprised if you're very honest, radically honest about what you actually want your business to look like. It could open the door for something that is so much easier and more successful.
And let's be honest now as well. All of this is very Um, subjective because the business you have is more successful than some people, you know, would ever be able to get to. So I think we need to make sure that we, you know, are mindful of that, that you do have a profitable business that a lot of people would absolutely be aspiring to.
Rebecca Gunter: I don't mean to not appreciate it. I
Gill Moakes: do. I, and I know you do. And I also know it's not a reflection of the actual business that you would love. I remember someone once telling me about how they would love to be able to take the whole of August off every year. Well, there is a version of your business model where you absolutely can get to do that.
If we know, if we knew that was something you would want to do and plan for and plan your revenue for and make sure that you had offers that can sell that don't involve you in the implementation phase, you know, that's absolutely something that we can weave in to your business model. But if you don't say that you want that because you're so focused on having your minimum viable business that pays the bills.
Then that's what you, you stay with.
Rebecca Gunter: Well, I don't want to stay stuck here. So
Gill Moakes: you're not going to, because you have me and I won't let you.
Rebecca Gunter: I know, but that's why we're doing it. We're doing this thing. Poe totally in public, by the way. Yes.
Gill Moakes: If you are watching or listening and would like to kind of play along with us and do this rewilding exercise on your own business and start asking yourself these kind of deep questions that Rebecca's been pondering over in this episode, then head to Gillmoakes.
com forward slash vision dash and dash goal dash setting. And that will enable you to opt into a, it's a three workbook bundle. So this part is going to cover the first three episodes. So the first half of this series, which is around vision that we've talked about today, goal setting and working on a North star statement, which Rebecca calls positioning.
And I call a North star statement because for me, that feels more meaningful to me. It's the same process. It's what Rebecca taught me. It's still absolutely crucial that you do this, but it's her secret sauce process that she very kindly lets me also offer to my clients to
Rebecca Gunter: somebody taught me how to do it.
I'll teach anybody how to do it right. You can do it for yourself. I mean, you can position just about everything you want to get into. I know I'm not allowed to use that word,
Gill Moakes: so. I might let you reintroduce it at some point, but not for the next six weeks. It's going to
Rebecca Gunter: be
Gill Moakes: tough. Yeah, so play along with us.
Play along with us and download the bundle. Um, start working on your vision statement. There's a workbook that will help you take you through some of the questions we covered today. There's some more questions in there. And Rebecca, next time when we reconvene here next week. Oh, she's got it printed out.
Look, what a good student she is. When we reconvene next week. Um, I'm going to ask you to share with us that vision statement so that we know then what we are working towards in the rewilded version of Stoned Fruit and we'll be setting some goals next week.
Rebecca Gunter: So big. What I love about this is that you've sent me still on my solo retreat.
It's still a solo work. And I contend that solo work is Absolutely! I contend that this is such a brilliant idea for you because I think that solo work is what builds the confidence and decision making. There's a lot, we obviously, we're all talking right now about community and collaboration and working together and co creation and all those things I'm into, but nothing builds your Confidence chops, like going through something on a solo journey and coming through the other side, knowing your answers are the best, that's truest for you, and you didn't have to look across the table in order to validate them, and again, co creative work is real work, it's very, very easy.
to co create some things. But in the case of entrepreneurship and when you're rewilding your own business, I do agree with you that this is a solo journey. So thank you for guiding me and dropping me at the path. But I know I have to walk this next piece alone.
Gill Moakes: You do, you do. And it isn't easy. This isn't light stuff.
And, um, and I think that's why when, when I do start. Um, taking, uh, reservations for the retreat, which will be this virtual solo retreat, you know, you'll sign up for the retreat, but then you'll get delivered to your inbox everything you need to take yourself through this. journey. And so thank you for saying that because it's really important to me that, you know, I haven't just dreamt this up without validating the idea for an offer.
Because I do believe that your offers, you do need to validate them. You need to be clear on what they should be. You need to be clear on your concept. That's the alone work. But when it comes to your offer, we should all be validating our offers before we try and sell them. But here we are, this is the alone stuff.
Yeah, this is exactly what we're doing. Yeah. So the other thing is, if you are watching or listening to this, and it is resonating with you, and you're like, Gill, this is such a good idea, drop me an email at info at Gillmoakes. com, and I'll be able to give you some more information about what the retreat will look like once that is completed.
Um, available to register for, but it's not at the moment, so there's nothing for you to do other than download your bundle of workbooks and play along. Also, if you are watching this and, um, also if you're listening to this On The Heads Together podcast, go and like and subscribe to the Stoned Fruit Roll Up, because, well, you've got to go and experience it.
Rebecca? Came up with this concept of building the show that is about building the show. So first, straight away, I love anything meta, but also she has the best guests. She comes up with the best topics and it's a bloody good watch.
Rebecca Gunter: And you're featured on so many of them. Plus I have you it for this series.
Gill Moakes: Well, you know that I will come on as often as you'll have me, so I feel like I'm actually staging some kind of silent takeover. She just doesn't
Rebecca Gunter: know. That's, that's, that's my plan all along. See how I'm able to overcomplicate things and manipulate them so that at the end of the day it seems like it's your idea?
It's
Gill Moakes: actually perfect good work.
Rebecca Gunter: Thank you for noticing. So we'll see folks back here hopefully, uh, next week where we're going to do, Gilly's going to take my visit, my visiting, my visioning. Wow, I'm drunk already. It's only noon. I'm drunk on your excellent coaching. I'm intoxicated on your inspiration.
That's what's happening. See us next Thursday where Gilly is going to walk me through goals, and I'm going to have to admit some big stuff out loud, which is going to be terrifyingly delicious. And that is the tagline, I think, for this six week series. Terrifyingly delicious.
Gill Moakes: Perfect. I love it.
Rebecca Gunter: Indeed.
Thank you so much. And also some extra delicious cherry flavor kisses to Tony for creating this excellent intro that we're using. Oh, yeah. So
Gill Moakes: good. Thank
Rebecca Gunter: you. Anybody who's looking for audio gold should absolutely check Tony out at SoundgroundProductions. com. That's SoundgroundProductions. com. I wrote that copy.
So, definitely go over there. And yeah, Gilly, that ends our epic vision episode. I hope it met with your expectations and dazzled you beyond. Oh,
Gill Moakes: so good. I've been like playing with this concept for so long. And like I say, I've done it for myself. I know it works. I know it's hard. Um, and I know that it gets uncomfortable.
I can't wait to find out what the real honest vision for the businesses. when we get back together next week. Can't wait. Sounds
Rebecca Gunter: great, Gilly. Thanks for coming on the roll up today. I will see you next week.
Gill Moakes: Yeah. See you next week. Bye for now.
