Rewild Your Business, Ep. 4, Model & Pricing, TRANSCRIPT
Gill Moakes: Hi, I'm Gill Moakes. I'm a business coach and mentor and the host of the Heads Together podcast. I help ambitious, freedom seeking entrepreneurs step into who they really are and create wildly profitable businesses doing what they love. Rewild Your Business on the Stoned Fruit Roll Up is a six part documentary.
It's a reality TV series for business, if you like, where I'll be taking my business bestie, Rebecca Gunter, the founder. Of Stoned Fruit on a journey to define success on her terms. Hi
Rebecca Gunter: everybody. I'm Rebecca Gunter Peach in chief at Stoned Fruit. I'm a brand strategist, developer, and copywriter.
Gill Moakes: I want her to start regenerating time and energy for herself, and we're gonna do that by rewilding her business.
By cutting away what doesn't belong, to allow what does to thrive. The biggest
Rebecca Gunter: challenge in my business right now is how freaking over complicated it is. No one knows what to buy from me. And I need someone to help me clear, clear the forest and help me re, replant the seeds that actually have a functionality and a purpose.
Gill Moakes: So over the next six weeks, we'll be deconstructing the idea that there's only one right way to do business. And my goal is that by the end of the series, Rebecca will be crystal clear and completely confident owning her own unique ecosystem.
Hello, hello people. Welcome back. We're into week. Or now, of this epic docu series, and it's a show within a show, by the way, which Rebecca and I both agree is the only way to go. Show within a show. So good. We're rewilding Stoned Fruit. And this week we are going to start off, we're going to kick off by, if you remember in the last episode, we worked on Rebecca's positioning.
And I set her the homework of going away and coming up with, you know, following her own process and coming up with her positioning statement and part of Rebecca's process, which will go through in a minute is coming up with three kind of ideas for her positioning statement. And then we'll really dive into each of those pull the bits that we love and what doesn't.
Stay the course ends up in her messaging bucket. So it's a really, um, it's a very matured and refined process that she uses and it works every single time. It's so good. So we're going to kick off with that. And then in the second half of the show today, we are going to be covering offers and pricing.
Everyone's nemesis, right? Everyone ties themselves up in knots on pricing. So going into offers really follows on so naturally from, um, the positioning part, because when you're positioning, you're really getting crystal clear on who you serve and how you serve them. And so that how you serve them part.
So let's kind of kick off first by revisiting Rebecca's homework. I will, in fact, I might put my teacher glasses on, hold on. Okay. I'm ready to review your homework. Miss Gunter, please step into my classroom.
Rebecca Gunter: Oh my God. I'm so nervous. I've been called into the principal's office and I admitted that I'm nervous because I, you know, that expression, doctor heal thyself.
That's how I felt writing these statements. I can imagine. I need an adult. I need an adult. I need somebody to help me frame this out and give myself some perspective, which is odd. I think Gilly, because this whole journey, this rewilding journey, this six part taking, you know, all of this time out of working in your business and on your business, this is meant to be a solo.
Retreat in your design, a little bit about that and how to kind of help someone who's crawling through the glass without any kind of validation or confirmation.
Gill Moakes: How scary is that? And actually, I am honestly going to start off by saying that positioning is probably the one thing. That is nigh on impossible to do completely on your own.
So even if you were doing this as you know, as intended in a, in a virtual retreat, solo retreat, I think that this is one thing that you need support on. Um, whether that is in the form of one on one support like this, or whether it is kind of just some resources to really help you with this, because there's a reason that people come to you for this.
It's so hard to do it for yourself. I think it gets easier the more you do it, doesn't it? So I can now get fairly far along the process. If I'm doing something new in my business, I'm kind of getting there now because you've taught me so well how to start doing this for myself. But there is something beautifully validating about you doing it with me.
So I get it. And I think also for you. It, you know, you are so used to doing this so masterfully for other people. And actually I think that sometimes makes it harder for you to do it for yourself. Would you agree?
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah, I second guess myself pretty much the entire time. Is this it? Is it too base? Is it too bland?
Is it too vanilla? Is it too out there?
I do that. I get, you know, daily. I can do this in my sleep. Sometimes I feel like I could do it in my sleep for other people. Yeah, for myself, there's, there was a lot of, I don't want to say imposter syndrome because I know that's a very real thing that, that plagues people. Maybe this is my own brand of imposter syndrome.
When you're not, I don't know, I, I, I spent a lot of time trying to talk myself or maybe deconstruct myself from the idea of, is this what Gilly wants? Is this what she wants to hear? Is this what will satisfy? Is this will get me my gold star?
Gill Moakes: And we know you like a gold star.
Rebecca Gunter: People pleasers unite like a gold star.
Is this what is called for in order to move us forward to the next step with business modeling and creating an offer? Second, guessing all of that was tremendously real. Oh, I coach people. All day, every day, this is an internal statement. When you start thinking about how other people are going to react to it, then you start second guessing yourself, and it's no longer going to be entirely true.
You have to write positioning as if it doesn't matter if anyone ever sees it or not, that it's true for you, in order for it to be what you call a North Star Statement. With the conundrum that happens when writing positioning in a vacuum, Without facilitation and that, like trying to pull back from needing to please you more than tell the truth.
Gill Moakes: Oh, that's hitting it on the head. You need to reconnect with. Or you need to reprioritize telling the absolute truth over pleasing me. And I think you've just really nailed that whilst this is a hard thing to do alone, if you can do it alone, and if you can let go of that. Second guessing that need to that need for the words to impress someone else because those words that you use don't have to impress anyone else.
They have to just be absolutely true for you. They should be inspiring for you too. So this isn't a place for vanilla, um, you know, uninspiring language, but they're not, it's not a place for boiled dinner. Anyone watching that is a slightly like it's an inside joke between Rebecca and I and I'm going to share it with you because otherwise that's just annoying.
Um, it's because I once told her that when I was a child on my birthday, I got to choose whatever I could have for my dinner and it would always be this kind of really bland, boiled potatoes, boiled peas and like some kind of. Really bland mince thing, ground beef, as you guys call it. So it's like, ever since then, she's called it boiled
Rebecca Gunter: dinner.
I'm not going to yuck your yum. And please, your boiled dinner is a gift from It's delicious. The culinary gods.
Gill Moakes: Exactly. And it's what you love. Yeah. Everyone knows that the UK is renowned for its fine cuisine. So, I mean. I
Rebecca Gunter: think the bigger point is that if boiled dinner feels It's delicious. Right to you.
If that is your happy place, is that, if that's what's delicious and tastes so good, just like a positioning statement, then that's for you. It doesn't have to be bold and quirky for bold and quirky sake. And that's something I really struggle with is to, I have to impress my own self with my cleverness.
Like if I'm not tickled. Then I feel like I kind of failed at the assignment and sometimes that's at the expense of clarity.
Gill Moakes: I think that's a really huge piece of self awareness because I do think that sometimes we can in our quest to get the pitch perfect words. We can actually lose a bit of the clarity of what we're trying to say.
So I think that's a really. Yeah. That's a really fair point. So all that said,
Rebecca Gunter: I'm a human. That's right. So
Gill Moakes: basically you're a human. Basically. Yes. You're not superhuman. You are human. And some things come hard and some things come very easy. And writing positioning statements that change people's lives comes easy to you for other people, but not so easy to you for yourself.
And that's okay. Wonderful. Indeed. Yeah. It's a homework. How did you get on? Okay. Is it time to show and tell?
Rebecca Gunter: I'm ready. I'm ready to reveal that I'm doing this, the Doctor Heal Thyself. Yes. Let us, let us see. Let us set the stage, shall we? Okay. Fabulous.
Gill Moakes: So. So I did allude a little bit to your process around this.
Um, um, did I leave anything out? I,
Rebecca Gunter: I was, yeah. I would just maybe pull back our perspective a little bit from anybody who's working on doing their own positioning, doing engaging in your own version of rewilding your business, you don't have to write three different positioning statements in order to get to one.
You can write one as long as you answer those questions. Who are my people? What do they need? Well, my what do I deliver and why am I special different or the one it can be as simple and or as complicated? Well, Gilly's not gonna like that as simple or as elaborate maybe baroque might be the word As you want it to be as long as we can get in the sentence and answer all those questions, you will have yourself a positioning statement and a positioning statement isn't something that just lives on a Google hard drive collecting dust.
It is the foundational piece by which all other content. Then becomes written. So for example, if I'm writing a piece of sales marketing copy, for whatever reason, a landing page, a website, a nurture sequence, a sales email, um, description for YouTube, no matter what it is, I start by putting the positioning statement at the very top of the document and the messaging.
And then I use that to inspire me as I construct the copy moving along. So that's why this is important. And also it gives you your own reasons to believe. These are my people. This is what they need. This is who I am. This is what I'm delivering and gosh, darn it. This is because why. So that is the formula for a positioning statement.
I like to write three as a mental exercise. When I'm working with a client, Gilly, writing three of them allows us to really triangulate around a bunch of different ideas and come up with something that feels so pitch perfect to them. And we've explored just about every corner of the room. You won't you know, you're not going to have an identity crisis three years from now be like why wasn't I more avant garde?
Should we be more avant garde? You've tried that on it didn't feel right. You felt really comfortable in these So I like to do three and then just kind of either You know mic drop nailed it on the You know version at one two or three is pitch perfect That rarely happens, but it does Usually what happens is we kind of go through and pick them apart and tease and find out what's the best of the best and create a hybrid version for.
So that's why there are three of them here. It allows us to really approach kind of similar concepts from different angles. And again, it's positioning. Like, I know I'm not allowed to say that word in this series because not everybody understands what positioning is, but to me, there's, I just can't find another word that like.
Just places you in the perfect, like coordinates of the business arena so that you can be really successful, attracting the right partners, collaborators, clients, et cetera.
Gill Moakes: I do. And just to clarify that, I don't think there's anything wrong with calling it positioning. I just don't think anyone wakes up in the morning and thinks, do you know what I need?
I need positioning.
Rebecca Gunter: I wish somebody would position me in the morning. If you know what I'm saying,
we've gone blue
Gill Moakes: YouTube.
Rebecca Gunter: Thank you for noticing my restraint. All right. So shall I just turn in my homework here and read to you what I've gotten? We'll work through the thing.
Gill Moakes: Yes, before you do, though, can I just add something to what you just said? And that is that when Rebecca does this and offers these three versions that she puts together, it really does help you as as the client to, um, actually recognize what.
doesn't feel right as much as what does and that, and often that seeing something that, Oh, makes you slightly recoil a little bit is kind of part of how she gets to the absolute perfection in terms of what is right for you. So I feel like it's part of the process having these three.
Rebecca Gunter: The hard nos are part as important as the hard yeses.
Yes, exactly. I actually really like it when I create, can spark a visceral, re visceral reaction from someone. Yeah. With a word, because that's a boundary, which is really important. Mm-Hmm. all the words I'm not gonna use. By design, or it's just as important as the words I am going to use by design. So you're really creating a form for your messaging or a container for it as it were.
All right, let's see what I did. Let's see what I came up with. Talk us through. All right. So I have three different versions here. Like I said, I try and approach them from different perspectives. I consider one of generally when I write them, one's a little boiled dinner ish ones I've got a little bit more.
Flavor to it. I usually call that one butterscotch And then one is generally a little weirder avant garde, although I don't feel like I have a weirder avant garde one here the avant garde ones Usually I try and approach maybe like a concept That's beyond the people. So maybe it's for The future of an industry, or it's for a marketing mix, or it's for other people who need some people to get their act together.
I kind of approach it from, um, a weird, who's it for to see if I can create a unique brand voice. In every one of these, there's no weird, who's it for because I truly am about showing up for people. There's really no, I used to say like, I care about the brand more than anything else, and that's not, not true.
I really do care about the brand and how it's like kind of anthropomorphizing and coming to life in a digital context. But I think that that was a way for me to kind of distance myself from the work that doesn't necessarily serve me. So in every one of these cases, the four is the people. All right. Me, me, me, me.
Okay. For entrepreneur version one for entrepreneurial types who need words that sell Not my phrasing, that is a book, but it works here. For entrepreneurial types who need words that sell, Stoned Fruit is the brand voice articulator and copy shop co op that delivers the pivot happy business coaching, ethos soaked messaging, personality driven conversational copywriting that is instantly recognizable and sustainably sticky because when it comes to content and calls to action, Give them something to believe in.
Hashtag real talk version two. I hear you sucking in your breath over there. Jelly version two for the hard headed and the soft hearted business builder who need a brand voice to bring their reputation to life. Stoned Fruit is the creative content agency and word smithery that delivers the extraordinary messaging, strategic coordination, and creative writing that holds a mirror to your essence, value, and values, reflected back to the world in words that sell, because this marketing mix isn't going to feed itself.
Facts. That one feels a little cold to me, in a way. Let me have the warm normally exude version three for reputation builders, stigma, smashers, and innovative idea factories who need to brand their business ventures and feed a robust and real marketing mix. Stoned Fruit is the creative agency and entrepreneurial activator that delivers one on one brand and business coaching, messaging, articulation, and wordsmithed world building that embraces a magnetized and monetized mindset and co creates converting copy and compelling content that feels both ambitious and oh so you because it is.
Gill Moakes: God, now I'm wavering.
Rebecca Gunter: You always waver after I read them out loud. I always waver.
Gill Moakes: I know. I know.
Rebecca Gunter: You think you know it. You're like, That is it! That is it right there! When you only read it, and then I read it out loud, and you change your mind. So true.
Gill Moakes: So, my Knee jerk reaction, which was, wow, version one is a mic drop because I really felt like there was some bits in the brand voice articulator.
Oh, you know, I felt there was some good, um, phrases in there and Rebecca's answer was hashtag vanilla version, hashtag world dinner.
Rebecca Gunter: So I didn't say it was a bad thing. And maybe this is what this calls for, because I have overcomplicated, and I have tripped over my own narcissistic need to be insanely clever and compelling, at the expense of clarity, and I don't really have an offer.
So, perhaps The boiled dinner is the nutrition this business needs. And I can stop being such a pompous copywriter who has been in trouble with my own generation. I
Gill Moakes: think. Versions one and three are going to merge like some beautiful mythical creature and produce the positioning statement to end all positioning statements.
Rebecca Gunter: I mean, the magnetize to monetize mindset, mama. I mean, you've got
Gill Moakes: to have that, right? You've got to have that. I mean, There's not many bits I like in version two, I don't like hard headed, soft hearted.
Rebecca Gunter: I mean, my clients are stubborn. True.
Gill Moakes: They are stubborn. You don't work with kind of, uh, women who aren't absolutely committed to their cause, their, um,
Rebecca Gunter: their goal.
No shrinking violets on my roster. That doesn't mean that they're closed minded. It doesn't mean that they're obtuse. It doesn't mean that they're shut down to new ideas. But they're definitely, um, there's some tough cookies. But I agree with you. The version two, I kept trying to soften. It felt so clinical.
It felt masculine, cold. A little, yeah, not dark, but like I, when I read it back, I'd felt really, it felt aggressively masculine, I guess
Gill Moakes: it does. It does actually. And even that, because, because this marketing isn't going to feed itself, it's like kind of like a. Catherine King was my favorite, but here's the thing.
This is the really interesting thing, isn't it? Is that it doesn't matter what it means to me and it doesn't matter what it means to Kathleen. It matters what it means to you. And it matters whether it, you feel that that is the absolute truth that sums up who you serve, how you serve them, et cetera. I
Rebecca Gunter: mean, there is a truth for me there that this marketing mix isn't going to feed itself because that's really the essence of why people come to, like, at the end of the day, what would success look to you, like to you, I would have the right words and a robust marketing mix that somebody was feeding and it wasn't me or it wasn't me.
Gill Moakes: And to that, because,
Rebecca Gunter: because it is, that's the most rebellious because only I've ever written because it is,
Gill Moakes: and it mentions feed a robust and real marketing mix. It does. I love version three, but there's a couple of bits of version one. I don't want to lose either your job. Part of the job of Stoned Fruit in terms of offers and delivery is weaving that entrepreneurial activation piece into everything Stoned Fruit sells.
So for me, when we're building out the offers, I think that's going to be an incredibly important part. What do we need to add to this offer? So that this copy gets used so that this client gets the full, full fat benefit from having this brand voice.
Rebecca Gunter: I have goosebumps even thinking about talking about it this
Gill Moakes: way.
Cause that's, and that's a complete differentiator as well. Cause most, I believe most copy agencies or content creation agencies would not see it through that lens. They would simply see it. And, and this isn't a criticism necessarily, because I think it's what we're, we kind of always strive to excel at our thing.
So if you're a creative copy writer, your goal is for your copy to be exquisite. You possibly won't go deep enough to understand that your true goal should be for your copy to be used by the client and for that copy to get the client the results they want from buying that copy. And those are two really different things.
Rebecca Gunter: That's a
Gill Moakes: brilliant point. You could create the best copy in the world. And if the client doesn't use it, it's actually worthless.
Rebecca Gunter: Actually worthless. Agreed.
Gill Moakes: I don't know about you, but I've already started having thoughts around the offers now just because of this piece of work. So. For me, there is that direct correlation between doing the positioning work and that work in itself, that process in itself, giving birth to the right offers.
Because when you realize what you're trying to deliver and what the people who you want to serve actually want and need, putting offers together that meet those needs become so much easier. You're not second guessing anything. It's really clear what. The offers that you should be putting together are so just a little thought there on how next week, because this week, I'm hoping that you will, um, take this positioning, complete it in its entirety with the messaging buckets and then use that.
To come up with the first draft of the offer ecosystem for Stoned Fruit.
Rebecca Gunter: Help! What's the offer ecosystem? How do I, how do I articulate an offer? Give me a little bit of prep and the roll up audience at home as to how should I be formatting it? How do I get that gold star?
Gill Moakes: How are you going to get that gold star is you're going to start as always with everything we do in our businesses with the who.
So you're coming back to that who again, and then you're going to think of what offers do they need at which phase or place on their entrepreneurial journey? What do they need when they're. Fairly new on their entrepreneurial journey. What do they need when they've been in business a few years? What do they need, uh, when they've been in business for 15 years and are looking to, you know, scale or exit, you know, what are, and then you decide where Stoned Fruit.
Shows up in that journey, it might be that Stoned Fruit doesn't show up until those people have been in business for a couple of years. They've already got, you know, a viable business going that they want to take to the next level, which is my gut feel for where Stoned Fruit is. I think most people in startup phase don't invest in, um, copy at the outset.
I think most of the people you work with don't, I think most of them have already been doing a DIY job on their messaging and their brand voice, and it's not as good as they know it could be, and that's when they come to you. So then it's okay, so if that's when people come to me, how do I meet them there?
What do I need? What are they really asking for in terms of? Offers, services, products, where can you meet them and for Stoat Fruit, you already have some off the shelf offers. So you have the LinkedIn profile offer. I do. Um,
Rebecca Gunter: I have standalone positioning
Gill Moakes: and messaging, right?
Rebecca Gunter: Standalone. I have the business and the raw at home edition, which is a 12 week coaching program.
Right. And then, of course, based on bespoke proposals that I've put together in the past, you know, a welcome sequence package, a, um, a funnel, a full funnel development package. Those are things that I have in the past, but maybe those are going to be too mechanical for you. They don't exhibit enough coaching.
Actually,
Gill Moakes: you know what? I think that stone through my gut feel is that we want a handful. I get that we want a handful of off the shelf offers. So things that just are this sort of offer. There's not, you know, there's no real tweaking of the offer. It's if you want this, this is how much it costs. You can click here to buy it.
So I think that the offer ecosystem for Stoned Fruit begins with those entry level offers there. But I actually think that after that, I like the idea of Stoned Fruit. Co creating offers with its clients that always we entrepreneurial activation phase, and then the content phase. And I think it can, it can weave into every single offer that you put forward.
Rebecca Gunter: If you had asked me 90 minutes ago, what my differentiator is, I probably would have said that no one can write like me now that is not at all. What I'm thinking as our differentiator, the fire beneath your butt to be who you truly, truly are without second guessing yourself
Gill Moakes: actually to be who you truly are, but also to allow who you truly are, to embrace a brand voice that is.
Better than the one you could have curated for yourself on your own. And, and that comes down to that piece around getting people to a place where they're brave enough to adopt something that may not immediately feel comfortable to them, that takes courage, takes bravery. Um, but if they, if you don't address that.
In what you do, like I say, those are the people who don't use the copy. Nothing changes for them. They've just money down.
Rebecca Gunter: Yeah. Or positioning. I mean, I honestly, Gilly cannot tell you how many people have position that don't put it, don't act, don't ever implement it. Right. And we're almost like, Oh my God, I feel so seen.
And then there's no, and then we're still out there talking about their, their Personal brand or their business brand, exactly the same way you were talking about it before you came to me in a crisis and I'm not, I'm not punching down at those folks at all. You may not know how to implement it, but generally I think it is around the courage to embody it.
I do. I
Gill Moakes: really do. And particularly someone who is and or sees themselves as a change maker, a stigma smasher, you know, those people are coming to you because your copy is so out there at times, it is so compelling. It's so different. It's so unique. But that means that. The, those people might need to even dig into more courage to really embrace that and get comfortable with that level of brand uniqueness in their voice.
So I think it's an essential part of every offer.
Rebecca Gunter: I am excited about that piece. Yeah, I'm excited
Gill Moakes: about that piece. So I know we haven't had a ton of time to kind of, um, go deep into crafting offers this time, but you know, we're going to pick that up next time anyway, because that's how this series has so beautifully worked out that we kind of, we start on one thing and then we have homework and then we pick it up again on the next one.
So I kind of like that rhythm to it. So what do you need from me in the time we have left today? To be able to go away and start offer sketching and what I mean by offer sketching is coming up with perhaps an ecosystem of five to seven offers really represent what Stoned Fruit can do for their clients.
So at this stage, I don't really care about whether they get. One 30 minute call or two 30 minute calls with you or whether they get a 500 word blog post or a thousand word blog post. Let's not go that deep in the weeds, but offer sketching is kind of coming up with a working title for five to seven offers, but it's really focusing on that positioning statement.
And saying, if I have to come up with five to seven things that those people need to get that, that, because that, you know, what, what you deliver, what are those five to seven offers and how do they relate to each other? What might be the order someone would do them in? What's the hierarchy in terms of pricing?
What are the low ticket offers? What are the mid tier offers? What are the high tier offers? Are there any low ticket offers? Is there an ultra high ticket offer? That's one on one time with you.
Rebecca Gunter: And so I do love that. Give me a VIP
Gill Moakes: day. Yes. So do you remember we've done this in the past, but for anyone who's watching, the way I love to do this is with a pyramid.
So we just sketch out a pyramid and then we split that pyramid into, um, usually maybe five kind of tiers. So at the very bottom, you've got your free offers. So those are things like your freebie opt ins, stuff you offer for free. It's things like the Stoned Fruit Roll Up, the show you're watching right now, which is free, valuable content.
Doesn't cost you a penny, but you're learning from us. In this show, you've got Rebecca's other show, Business in the Roar, where so much value for entrepreneurs. I mean, and that's free content that anyone can come along and learn from you on. So that goes at the bottom of your pyramid. The next tier might be for things that are low tickets.
So it might be books. It might be, um, a very kind of a micro course where you're delivering perhaps three videos in, in three emails. Um, you know, and it's a very low ticket, uh, price. And I always see those more as lead generators than actual. Revenue streams, if you like, and then you work up from there. So you start mapping out, well, okay, is it a done for you service?
Where does that fit? Is that mid tier? Is that low tier? Is it high tier? Is there a digital course element? Is there a mastermind element? Is there a retreat? Is there a digital group program? Is there some one to one work? All of those things, all of those different ways of getting over what you do, is there a paid masterclass or something like that?
Is there a free masterclass? Just start mapping out where you see things sitting in that pyramid. And in terms of pricing, in terms of pricing, I always just keep it pretty simple. I want you to think about. Where you want to start. So some people don't entertain low ticket offers. So an N a low ticket offer to be, is anything below 2, 000.
Okay. So some people say that's not low ticket, right? But actually I think low ticket is anything you could sell. On a sales page and up to 2, 000, you can, you can have a go at quite well at selling from a, directly from a sales page or from a website, people can click and buy anything above that. I think there needs to be a slightly more sophisticated vehicle for selling, whether that is a call, uh, where they actually just.
Get to discuss their requirements with you, whether it's perhaps a master class where you're really educating them around what you're selling. And then they get to either have a call or to go to a sales page after that, but it's not strictly just going to a sales page, clicking and buying. So in terms of pricing, start thinking about that.
You know, do you want to be having a lot of sales calls or do you want to reserve that for the, definitely the higher ticket offers that you have? And therefore, does that mean you need to price things slightly lower at the bottom of the pyramid so that you can take that, that more intensive sales part of the process out and sell from a sales page?
Things to think about, things to think about when you're just sketching those offers out. And there's no right or wrong answers. There's no too many offers. There's no too few offers. It's about your, as you're doing it, you'll get a feel for what feels right for you. And the one thing I would say to you is that you want to have, I think sometimes people call it like a value ladder, but basically you want to take a client on a journey.
You don't want a client to come to you by one thing and then have nowhere to go. So you want to think about, well, where are they when they come to me? What do they need right then? Okay. I want a certainly one, if not a couple of offers that they can choose from at that point. Once they've completed that work with me, or once I've delivered that work to them, what would be the natural next step that they're going to want to go to in terms of what they're ready to buy next?
So a great example of that for you might be website copy. So once someone has the website copy and has finally got a website that's generating traffic, that's actually bringing leads into their business, what do they need after that? It might be that they now need some really Decent nurture sequences that are responding to these leads that are coming in to them, right?
It'd be a natural next step for them And you can also then for a business like Stoned Fruit where we're going to have some offers that are by off the shelf You can start thinking about naturally aligned bundles So a beautiful cell on website copy would be you compare that with your um, nurture sequence for new people joining your email list because that idea that you bundle those together gives them even more.
Confidence in buying the website copy. Cause straight away they're saying, Oh, so once I have the website copy, I'm going to need this cause I'm going to be getting more inquiries. Okay. That makes sense. Then I definitely need that website copy. Cause I want to be the person that needs the email sequences to the little psychology around it.
And it's completely authentic. It's absolutely taking them on a journey once they've got that and they've now. Been utilizing that copy because you did the work with them to be brave enough to utilize that copy. Then what, what comes next after that? Maybe now they feel more confident to create higher ticket offers themselves.
So maybe there's some sales page copy that needs writing, or maybe that it's that thought process, right? It's that thought process. When someone comes to me, what do they want? Then what do they want? Then what do they want? What's the natural alignment of offers?
Rebecca Gunter: It's kind of the enlightened brand in a way.
Yeah, it absolutely against the map of a customer journey. That's right. Again, Dr. Heal thyself.
Yes, Gilly. Okay. That was a lot. I
Gill Moakes: know. That was a lot. That was, I mean, that positioning is getting so tight now. I love it. First of all.
Rebecca Gunter: Well, I think it needs, I think now that I can go away and sleep on it and figure out, um, kind of what pieces need to be tweaked and polished. Tony texted me to tell me that there's a big question in the chat.
So this must be super important. Oh, okay. How do we actually get Rebecca so she doesn't need to be on calls all the time and getting nothing for them?
Gill Moakes: Are you on calls all the time and getting nothing for them? Okay. Yeah. Yes.
Rebecca Gunter: Who are you on a call with? Yes. I mean, girl, you know, I put the free and freelance, like I'm always wanting to help somebody move things along.
And I don't feel like the call is that I'm getting nothing for them. I'm in my own way by not having an offer to put them into. I'm in my own way by not, you know, closing that deal. I'm in my own way by not nurturing them. You know, on my email list or personal outreach or whatever, I'm the one who lets the canoe go off the waterfall.
That's right. And then it's like, why am I off the waterfall?
Gill Moakes: So you have the complete opposite problem to most people. Most people have the offer. They just can't get on enough calls with enough of the right people. You are getting on calls. But you're not making the right offer. 100 percent Most people would kill to have that problem rather than the one they have.
Rebecca Gunter: Well, let's not kill anything other than bad vibes. True. Good question, Tony. I need to start integrating that into our promotions. I've been, I've been a bad timekeeper. So thank you for clarifying it. Much appreciated. Gilly. I did not give you much chance to promote yourself, but gosh, darn it. Wow.
Gill Moakes: That's not why I'm here, woman.
Rebecca Gunter: Well, I hear you, but gosh, darn it. Where can people find you?
Gill Moakes: Please come see my sparkly website at Gillmoakes. com. Gill is with a G and it's pronounced Gill, not Gill. Uh, so come see me here. Yep. That is my website. You can see on the top right there, there's a vision. And goals workbook bundle, um, which doesn't really do it justice, that title.
So if you would like that, go ahead, click on that. That will take you through quite a bit of stuff that is very foundational for your business. Um, also come and check me out on the heads together podcast. Thank you. Um, so yeah, that's where, um, you will find me week in week out and yeah, come and
Rebecca Gunter: check out.
And see Gillian connect with her on linkedin Ring that little bell ding ding ding
Gill Moakes: ring the bell
Rebecca Gunter: everybody ring the bell Gillian has great linkedin Content if there's ever going to be a thing as great linkedin content. It is 100 percent Gilly. So get in there and connect with her on that way. Please come back and see us next week when Gilly continues to gamby my own ass and business development and being the extraordinary coach that she is, who is helping me stop crying about going over the waterfall and the canoe and start paddling in abundance.
How was that?
Gill Moakes: And as always, my pleasure. Thank you.
Rebecca Gunter: Gilly.
