Gill Moakes (00:01.107)
Hey, Malin, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so happy to have you on the show.
Malin Rosenkvist (00:08.583)
It is such a pleasure to be here. It feels like it's been a long time coming. I'm very excited.
Gill Moakes (00:11.296)
Oh my goodness.
It does feel like it's been a long time coming. For anyone listening, we had a couple of false starts, didn't we? So we had a couple of false starts where technology was not our friend. However, we are now ready to go. And I am beyond ready to talk to you about the amazing work that the Microloam Foundation does. And so thank you for coming on and giving up some time to talk to me today about it because...
It's something that I've been captivated by really since I found out about the work that you do. And I really want to share this. I really want to share this with as many people as possible. So could we kick off by you just giving us a bit of a brief overview of what the Microloan Foundation is and what it does?
Malin Rosenkvist (01:05.29)
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm gonna do the nutshell version, which is Micro Loan Foundation is a women's empowerment and a poverty alleviation organization. So we help some of the poorest women in Malawi, Zambia and Zimbabwe to start their own small businesses by giving them loans, so startup capital.
Gill Moakes (01:07.283)
Thanks.
Malin Rosenkvist (01:32.114)
as well as a lot of training on financial literacy, how to run a business, entrepreneurship, bringing them that confidence. And then as a result, they're able to set up small businesses and when I say small, we called Micro-Learn Foundation for a reason, small businesses and as a result, they're able to slowly begin that journey out of poverty. So maybe I should tell you who the...
Gill Moakes (01:48.547)
Yup.
Malin Rosenkvist (02:00.106)
people that we serve are because that's what makes us different I think.
Gill Moakes (02:02.327)
I would love that. That, that I think gives us all of the context, doesn't it? Yeah. So tell us who, who you help. Actually, no, Lena, sorry. Sorry. Can you take that out, Lena? I don't want to say who you help. Like we had a better word. What did we say? We said it. Serve. Yeah. Okay. I'm back, Lena. Um, yeah, that would be really good if you could tell us a little bit about who you serve.
Malin Rosenkvist (02:11.498)
Yeah, so.
Malin Rosenkvist (02:21.526)
Who you serve?
Malin Rosenkvist (02:33.006)
Absolutely. So we work with women only, 100% women. And those women live in rural areas. Many of them are living on, well, 50% or more of them are living on less than a pound a day. So they live in extreme poverty. This means they're struggling to find enough food for themselves and for their families. If they fall ill, they might not be able to go to the doctor.
They're unlikely to be able to send their children to school because they can't afford, even if school fees are free, they can't afford the uniforms or the books or the transport to school. So these are women that live in, in dire poverty, I would say. And many of them are smallholder farmers as well. Yeah. So in, they live in rural areas.
Gill Moakes (03:11.997)
Right.
Gill Moakes (03:20.143)
Some... Yeah?
Gill Moakes (03:28.463)
So one, I just want to go back to this dire poverty because I think it's really important for us to realize that, you know, I'm not sure that we can have any idea living where we do, the privilege we have right now of what that really means. And when you and I spoke before, you were explaining to me something that just really stuck with me, that these are women who...
These women go to bed hungry for long periods of time. And I think this is probably connected to what you were about to tell us about, the fact that they are smallholder farmers. So tell us how that shows up in terms of what they do and why that is.
Malin Rosenkvist (04:15.87)
Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting because female small-hulled farmers are less productive than their male counterparts. And there are many reasons for that. But obviously, if you're less productive and you're a subsistence farmer, you're living kind of hand-to-mouth, that means you're going to be going to bed hungry more often than not, basically. The reason for it is that they take more responsibility for the...
unpaid care work and the work that happens in the home. And that doesn't just apply to the women that we serve in Africa, that applies to women across the globe. Across the globe, women do 70% of the unpaid work and the unpaid care work. And that's something I think which is, you know, a lot of the things that we're chatting about today and the women that we work with in Microloan Foundation, it actually does to a certain extent also apply to that gender imbalance that we have in the world.
Gill Moakes (04:55.743)
Absolutely.
Malin Rosenkvist (05:15.922)
in our society as well.
Gill Moakes (05:18.235)
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, you know, we've chosen today for this episode to go out on International Women's Day because, you know, this is, you're right, this is a much wider issue. But for these women in, in the countries where you work, it is so dire. It's such a, it's such a.
microcosm of life and it is so dire that... sorry I'm literally whistling, I don't know what's wrong with me today, Lena. I'm coming back to that. Can't string a sentence together today. What am I trying to say? What am I trying to say? I'm trying to say that, yes. Okay I'm just gonna go back a bit, Lena.
So I think it's so important that, and it's one of the reasons I wanted this episode to go out on International Women's Day, is because this is an issue that really is reflective across the globe for women. But for these women that you serve in Africa, it is utterly dire, the situation. And I've never really come across an example.
of a charity that operates in the way that the foundation does. So am I right in calling it a charity? It is still a charity, but it is so different to the way a charity normally works. Can you explain? So I know that, you know, there is these loans, some of them that it's like around 25 pounds, am I right? Or 25 dollars, some of the loans, you know.
Malin Rosenkvist (06:49.911)
Yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (07:06.174)
Yeah, yeah, this is where I'm saying micro is really micro. No, the startup loans in Malawi are just, you know, 25 pounds to start a small, small business. And you know, when you say, so are you a charity? It's a really good question because yes, absolutely we are. And we do need donations and we need grants and we need the support from the general public to help us continue and grow our work. But we also believe that as an...
Gill Moakes (07:09.409)
micro loans.
Gill Moakes (07:23.514)
Yeah.
Gill Moakes (07:29.79)
Mmm.
Malin Rosenkvist (07:34.642)
as a charity or as an organization, any organization, we need to have an element of sustainability, which means that the loans are repaid, we charge an interest on the loans to make sure that we can cover some of the costs to deliver the training and the support, and ultimately our goal is for us to be sustainable as an organization so that any donations that come through do not have to be spent on...
Gill Moakes (07:40.752)
Yes.
Malin Rosenkvist (08:00.718)
serving the clients that we're already serving and our overheads, but actually can help us reach new women, more women, and also make sure that we do, we improve what we're doing because we can always do better.
Gill Moakes (08:15.583)
course. But I think that goal is amazing because if you can get to that point where it's self-sustaining with the loans and then you can move into other territories, right, because you've started in these three specific countries, so Malawi, Zimbabwe and Zambia, sorry, and there's the reason for that is
Malin Rosenkvist (08:36.706)
Zambia.
Gill Moakes (08:45.595)
women in the world are in those countries, right? And you have to start somewhere. But if you can get to that point of the microfinance side of things being sustainable and self-renewing almost, then like you say, any donations that come into the charity means that you can expand this and help more women in wider territories. So it's such a great.
Malin Rosenkvist (09:10.667)
Absolutely.
Gill Moakes (09:14.155)
model, I think, for this. And I'm really curious about that because
There is always a question mark with charities. So I think as someone, if you're gonna donate to a charity, you have this, you wanna help the people that you wanna help, but you always have this suspicion or this kind of worry that the money isn't gonna get to the people that you want to help. It's gonna get swallowed up by governance or by something else.
And so I suppose a question I have for you is like, how do you know that the money that is donated is gonna be used in an effective way for the people that it's intended for?
Malin Rosenkvist (10:03.438)
That's a really good question and a question that I wish I was asked more often because I think there is also, there's a really important learning piece. As a donor, you do have responsibility for making sure that you're picking the right organization that you donate to so that the money is well spent. You know, it is a really important question. And from our perspective, first of all, operating in Africa, there are challenges for corruptions.
Gill Moakes (10:20.284)
Agree.
Mm.
Malin Rosenkvist (10:31.162)
corruption. We have corruption all over the world and you know in our own societies as well. But there are certain challenges and therefore we in MicroLearn Foundation UK, it's the same organization as MicroLearn Foundation Malawi or MicroLearn Foundation Zambia or MicroLearn Foundation Zimbabwe. So the money doesn't go anywhere else. You know we have control over that.
Gill Moakes (10:33.819)
Absolutely.
Gill Moakes (10:55.665)
Right.
Malin Rosenkvist (10:56.938)
rather than working through a partnership where all of a sudden transparency becomes very challenging. And I mean, you know, you can see on our website that we have, we are very transparent with how we spend our money and what we do. So, which I think is, it is really, it's really important. And as someone who donates, it's also important that you look that up so that your money is actually having the intended impact. But then from our perspective as an organization, it's also our responsibility
Gill Moakes (11:07.155)
Yes, absolutely.
Gill Moakes (11:19.272)
Yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (11:26.306)
to make sure that we are prudent with how we spend our money, that we do have good governance in place, that we do have the spend the money that we should be spending on structures to make sure that money is not misspent. You know, we have the right people in the right place. That's really, really essential for having a functioning organization of any, whether it's a charity or company, you know. But then also, we have the added piece of measuring
Gill Moakes (11:35.35)
Mm.
Gill Moakes (11:42.6)
Hmm.
Malin Rosenkvist (11:56.182)
the impact of what we do. We need to make sure that we are really mindful and careful to make sure that we, what we do is having the intended consequences, that we are actually having a positive impact.
Gill Moakes (12:12.767)
And that has its own challenges, doesn't it? With the level of poverty and the level of perhaps education that these women have had access to in their lives and that kind of thing. I am guessing that there has to be some layers of helping the women who are given the money use it wisely so that they get the outcome that they want. And I'm pretty sure that's not signing up to some kind of really complicated high tech digital course.
Malin Rosenkvist (12:15.856)
Absolutely.
Malin Rosenkvist (12:34.466)
Absolutely.
Malin Rosenkvist (12:42.382)
Thank you.
Gill Moakes (12:42.836)
So tell me what that looks like within Microloan.
Malin Rosenkvist (12:46.526)
Yeah, absolutely. And it's such a central part to our model and it's such a central part to the women's success as well. So we do, before the women get access to a loan, you've got to remember these are women who are living it with very low levels of literacy. Many of them are signing for their loan with a thumbprint, you know. So before they get access to a loan, we need to make sure they understand what it means to take a loan. We need to educate them on their financial health, basically.
Gill Moakes (13:13.851)
Yeah, yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (13:14.134)
So that's what we do before they get access to a loan. So they take part in seven training sessions before they get a loan. And when they're ready and they've got, you know, we've helped them work out how to make a business plan and how to run a sustainable business, that's when they get access to the loan. And you've got to remember, as they can't, many of them, some can, but many have low levels of literacy. So the training is done through role play, through song.
Gill Moakes (13:22.253)
Mm-hmm.
Malin Rosenkvist (13:44.078)
through dance, through visual aids, just different kinds of way to make sure that they actually remember what they do. And very often we post, we might post the singing and the dancing about, from our clients. But it's really important to know that it's not just for fun. It's not just some African women singing, you know? These are women in the process of learning. There's a purpose to what we're doing and how we are conducting those training sessions.
Gill Moakes (13:53.37)
I love that.
Gill Moakes (14:02.483)
No.
Malin Rosenkvist (14:13.142)
And I can tell you, they are amazing to attend. Ha ha ha.
Gill Moakes (14:16.299)
Oh, I am, I can only imagine, and I know you've been fortunate enough to go and experience that with the women. It must be amazing to see that firsthand, to see that, just that start of something that's about to unfold for those women once they get to that level of understanding, to get their loan, to begin their business. I can't only imagine how that feels to see that.
Malin Rosenkvist (14:46.298)
Yeah, it is amazing. I've had the fortune to meet so many of the inspiring women in our network and you know, they are like many women are across the globe. They're juggling a million and one things but they're doing it in a slightly, you know, we all have challenges in our lives, right? But they have possibly bigger challenges than a lot of other, yeah.
Gill Moakes (14:46.311)
amazing
Gill Moakes (15:10.795)
more fundamental challenges.
Malin Rosenkvist (15:14.078)
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. More fundamental, that's a good way to put it. So, yeah, they are, you know.
Gill Moakes (15:19.409)
Mm.
I would love.
Gill Moakes (15:26.139)
Incredible. I would love to hear like maybe an example of someone who has benefited from what Microloan Foundation do. Have you got any good stories to share with us of you know the real impact?
Malin Rosenkvist (15:43.038)
Oh my god, I have so many. I don't even know which one to pick.
Malin Rosenkvist (15:51.998)
I can tell you about one woman who I first met her in 2016. Her name is Maritha Stevens and she's from Malawi. I met her when she was taking part in an agricultural training for smallholder farmers. She had just been divorced. She's got four biological children and she had just taken in an orphan as well. And that was actually her brother's.
brother's son because the brother and his wife had passed away in HIV and this orphan also had HIV. So she was basically learning how as a single mom of five she was learning how to see her farm as more of a business rather than a kind of a necessary hand-to-mouth kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. And the way, first of all, her sense of humor.
Gill Moakes (16:44.403)
just hand to mouth every day, yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (16:51.75)
is absolutely phenomenal. In all of this she's super driven and just has the most amazing sense of humor and real drive and determination to succeed. And obviously this was early days, right? This was in 2016. Then I met her again, I met her again in 2022 and it was so amazing. First of all, I walked into the village and she now has a restaurant.
Gill Moakes (16:54.128)
Wow.
Gill Moakes (17:06.349)
Yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (17:20.234)
So she has a little shop and she has a restaurant and she has a farm. Yeah, it's really amazing. And you know, I walked into the village and she sees me and she knew that I was coming, but, and I see her and it was like seeing an old friend. You know, some people you just click with and it was just so, so lovely. And her, the orphan that she was looking after, she had taken in an other orphan at this point,
Gill Moakes (17:20.711)
What? Oh my gosh.
Gill Moakes (17:39.231)
Absolutely.
Malin Rosenkvist (17:50.146)
The child that she had taken in who had HIV was healthy and was doing well and was on antiretrovirals, you know. Obviously there are challenges, but she was just really, she's really so driven to make, to make a positive change and have a positive impact for her own family, but also for other people who in her community are less fortunate than she is.
Gill Moakes (18:07.708)
Wow.
Malin Rosenkvist (18:20.086)
You know, it's just, she just has a level of generosity in her. That is just amazing.
Gill Moakes (18:20.315)
Yes, I'm just, I'm very conscious, sorry. I was just conscious I was sitting here with my mouth wide open because like it's captivating hearing these stories. You know, for anyone listening, do go to the Microloid Foundation website because there are lots of stories on there of incredible women, stories like that. And...
Malin Rosenkvist (18:27.969)
No.
Gill Moakes (18:47.039)
Yeah, it's just amazing. One thing you said earlier just now that really stuck out to me is you referred to the women that I helped as clients. And that really stands out for me. It gives them this level of respect that they deserve because these aren't people taking handouts. These are people taking loans.
that they will repay and they are investing in their own training and they are committing time to learn and all of those things. So I really love that you are referring to them as clients because that is what they are, right? They are clients of a microfinance business. Is that a good question?
Malin Rosenkvist (19:33.802)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important also in our rhetoric around people who live in poverty to make sure that we have a rhetoric that is dignified. And that isn't some kind of, you know, savior behavior. These women are helping themselves. The success that they have is their success. We are there to facilitate and provide them with an opportunity.
Gill Moakes (19:48.656)
Absolutely.
Malin Rosenkvist (20:01.802)
but they are the ones who are building the success and they are the driving forces behind that success.
Gill Moakes (20:08.687)
I that is that is what I just love and it's part of what's going to contribute to this being sustainable because charities that are just asking for handouts that is a that's a really hungry animal right and it's never ending and the and yes the donations are always going to be required to be able to expand this but
as soon as this can get to this level of self-sustaining as a finance business, that lights me up because it means that this is something that can grow and grow and grow and help more and more and more women, which is very, very exciting. How can people get involved? How can people help?
Malin Rosenkvist (21:02.966)
Wow, yeah, there's lots of ways to help actually, depending on who you are, what you enjoy doing, but one thing first of all is to check us out. Take a look at micr on our website, follow us on social media, and we do have some really exciting things coming up. We have an event.
Gill Moakes (21:16.069)
Yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (21:32.243)
actually
Malin Rosenkvist (21:36.47)
Can we stop that and not include that? Sorry. I just remembered. So.
Gill Moakes (21:37.879)
Yeah because it's before isn't it? I did as you said it I was thinking actually that's before this goes up.
Malin Rosenkvist (21:46.382)
And I'm wrecking my brain going, when is the next one, when is the next one? But yeah, we have one on the 6th of June, actually, so I could talk about that.
Gill Moakes (21:50.323)
Duh duh duh.
There we go, we'll talk about that one. Okay, we're back, Leela.
Malin Rosenkvist (22:00.622)
So, how can people help? Well, there are so many ways that you can get involved and help. And the first step in this, I would say, is to take a look at our website. So, micr Yeah. And also, follow us on social media, on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn and on Facebook. Then, we have a very...
Gill Moakes (22:13.107)
Definitely. Yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (22:26.498)
very exciting event happening on the 6th of June in London. So if you're up for fun and inspiring stuff, we have the wonderful team at Canva hosting an event for us where we will be having a whole load of cool women doing cool stuff. That is actually the name of the event. So we've got anything.
Gill Moakes (22:32.217)
Voo?
Gill Moakes (22:38.48)
Always.
Gill Moakes (22:51.919)
That's brilliant. Cool women doing cool stuff. Who doesn't want to go to that? Right.
Malin Rosenkvist (22:58.566)
Right? So we'll have anything from like super duper CEOs of like massive companies who will do sort of fireside chat. We've got a little bit of an art exhibition coming through. We've got someone in journalism who will be talking. It will be a whole bunch of cool women doing cool stuff. And I think anyone, man or woman, should be, you know, joining us. So we are still to...
Gill Moakes (23:18.189)
Nice.
Malin Rosenkvist (23:27.914)
put that information up on our website, but what I'm saying is, watch this space. Yeah. If.
Gill Moakes (23:32.319)
insider info people listening so keep your eyes peeled and I will be sure to if you are on my email list you will definitely get a reminder when that's about because I will remind you but yeah definitely keep checking the website for that one
Malin Rosenkvist (23:39.435)
Yeah.
Malin Rosenkvist (23:51.982)
Absolutely. And then of course, one of the key things and kind of drawing back on what we've been talking about today, you know, a donation of any size will make a difference. We measure our impact very, very carefully. You know, we have a globally recognized poverty probability index that we use to measure poverty status. We measure a whole range of indicators very carefully and we talk to our clients asking them what they want and what they need and the difference that
we are making in their lives in terms of the services that we provide. So if you're able to make a donation, that of course is going to have a real impact on the lives of the women that we serve.
Gill Moakes (24:34.391)
a real and direct impact. I mean, this money, you know, as you've just set out for us, this money is very carefully looked after within the microloan foundation, like any financial institution, right? You know, it's very carefully looked after and it's you're really prudent about how it's used.
which I just think is really reassuring for people who want to help serve these women, help these clients of yours to start these businesses, which is just, I mean, it's something that I'm sure many of them could never have dreamt of without help from the foundation. Never. Well, they certainly couldn't have.
So I will make sure that we've got links in the show notes for all the ways that people can follow you, can check out on the website. But I guess my ask for this for today, which is International Women's Day, is that if you're listening to this and you want to do something that isn't just posting on social media about how much you support International Women's Day, because you know me by now,
heard me talk a lot and you know that I am utterly unapologetic about calling things out that get on my nerves and one of them is when we are so into the social media value of hitching a ride on to things like International Women's Day and I would love it if that if you're listening if you want to really make that mean something if you want to actually directly help women
on International Women's Day, how about making a donation? It's like a small act for you to do. This is any amount of donation, but it's something you can actually do right now. If you're listening to this on your phone, you can do it now via your phone, and it will make a difference. So I would love you to just think about that. Think about how International Women's Day isn't just a way for you to raise your visibility as someone who supports something good.
Gill Moakes (26:53.983)
is a way for you to actually take action to support something good. OK, rant over and bossiness withdrawn. Marlene, I'm back to you. I'm off my high horse now, but do you understand what I mean by that? You know, I think International Women's Day is brilliant. I love it. I love it. I love it. But it has to be more than just something that we can all...
like boast about supporting has to be more than that.
Malin Rosenkvist (27:26.814)
Yeah, absolutely. And for us, I mean, we try to celebrate women every day of the year, but I do have to admit that it is intensified around International Women's Day because we're just pushing it out there.
Gill Moakes (27:27.504)
Slur.
Gill Moakes (27:33.64)
YESS
Gill Moakes (27:39.071)
Of course, of course. Why would I mean we're putting this podcast episode out on International Women's Day. I'll be talking about it on social media, you know, so you're absolutely right. But I think it's if we can, if we could all get that balance of riding the wave of awareness around things like this but also taking the action, not letting it just be something that's awareness driven.
Malin Rosenkvist (27:47.363)
Exactly! Yeah.
Gill Moakes (28:07.599)
letting it be something where you're taking action to support, I think would be amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. I don't think it's the last time that you'll come on. I hope it won't be the last time you come on, because I think this is something that... Ah! Well, thank you. And I want more stories. I want more stories. And I feel like that's what everyone's got to want to hear about is some of these amazing stories that bring this to life.
Malin Rosenkvist (28:13.474)
Absolutely.
Malin Rosenkvist (28:22.454)
I have loved it!
Gill Moakes (28:36.991)
It's the stories that bring to life what donating would actually mean for a woman's life and her family's life. So I think if you're happy to, I would love to have you back on before too long to talk more about.
Malin Rosenkvist (28:52.47)
Absolutely, I would love that.
Gill Moakes (28:55.303)
Thank you, Manan, and enjoy the rest of International Women's Day.
Malin Rosenkvist (29:00.85)
Likewise and happy International Women's Day to all!
Gill Moakes (29:02.899)
Thanks! Happy International Women's Day wherever you are! Thanks Molly, bye for now!
Malin Rosenkvist (29:12.27)
Thank you.
