Gill Moakes (00:02.782)
Welcome, welcome to the Heads Together podcast. I'm your host, Jormoaks, and I'm so glad to have you here with me again this week. Thank you for joining me. This week is a topic that I've been meaning to create an episode about for ages. And I don't know why it kept slipping to the bottom of the pile. I really don't know. Maybe because...
I think there's a part of me that knows that this is like a touchy subject, because it's one of those things where we know we should be doing it, but for some reason, we resist it. Okay. So I'm going to really unpack this one thing that most of us as coaches seem to resist, particularly at the
beginning of building out our coaching practice. And it's something that when you get your head around it makes so much difference.
And that one thing is actually talking to your ideal clients. I don't know why it gets so much resistance, but it does. So I'm going to try and unpack it. Let's dive in.
Gill Moakes (01:31.544)
Okay, the first thing is, this is if you're listening to this and thinking, my god, this is me, I can't think of anything worse than having to set up conversations with my ideal clients. It just feels so awkward. This episode is for you. Because there are so many coaches and other entrepreneurs out there who don't
do this. And it's so important. And I'm not talking about getting on the on calls to have a sales conversation. I'm talking about making time to actually have one on one conversations to truly understand your ideal clients really get deep into their world and really understand not just what you think they're struggling with, but what they actually tell you they're struggling with.
You know what, I feel like avoiding having these conversations is just one of the biggest mistakes you can make. And it's one of those pivotal things that I know for my business, when I started to do this, everything changed. Everything changed. The language I used in my messaging changed. My website copy changed. Just everything changes. You have such a deeper understanding of those ideal clients.
just gives you so much more clarity around what you're doing. And it's absolutely the key to your marketing.
right? So this is like, it's so important. So why if it's so important, do we avoid having these conversations? And I think, you know, I've heard tons of reasons, tons of reasons things, I don't want to bother people. Or, well, I don't need to talk to them, because I already know what they're struggling with. That's a really popular one. I don't need to do that. I don't need to set up those awkward
Gill Moakes (03:38.018)
calls because I already know what the issues are. Another one I hear a lot is, well, what if they don't want to share with me?
And I remember actually talking to one client a long time ago, who was very resistant to doing this. Because she felt that those people would expect free coaching from her. Now, of course, my response to that is good, brilliant. If they expect free coaching from you on that call, wonderful, coach them, coach them to within an inch of your life.
because we know that's how we enroll clients. But anyway, I don't know if you can relate to any of those, but I think these are quite common. This one of, don't want to put them out, I don't want to bother them. Why would they give up their time to do that for me? And I think that's a really interesting one. All of these are just stories. In actual fact, people love talking about themselves.
people love being asked to share about themselves, about their story, about the things that they're dealing with. I think that if you do it in the right way, people love being having that space held for them to do that. So I think, you know, it's the way you frame your requests to them, that will determine whether they feel like it's intrusive, or it's a problem, or you know, why is she asking me that?
or whether they think, what a really good, genuine, transparent way to do business. I would absolutely love to help this person. Right. So just be mindful that there's gonna, there's a lot of stories we tell ourselves around this.
Gill Moakes (05:33.236)
know, what I think is I've been really trying to think what is the real reason that we resist doing this? What really is it? And I think it's this uncomfortable feeling of being face to face with the possibility that we might have got some things wrong about our assumptions. It's almost like especially if you're a way into building out your business, it's
It's kind of, well, I've done that work. I've made my list of client pain points, so they must be true. And I don't really want to have to go back and revisit that because I'm pretty sure I did a really good job of it. And therefore I'm resisting this opportunity to validate all of it.
And I think it's really ironic because, when we avoid having those conversations, we actually are making our lives as coaches way harder. You know, we're stuck guessing about what our clients need and what they want and about the language that's going to resonate with them. We don't need to, we don't need to guess because done right, we can ask them. It makes doing business so real as well, I think.
And I, and I believe that clients coaching clients are sick of the whole noisy online world of people trying to sell at them if they have a feeling that they have a problem they want to solve. Coaching could well be the answer to helping them get unstuck or move forward or make changes. The last thing they want is this disingenuous avalanche of noise of people trying to sell at them.
So actually I think this very transparent, refreshing approach of taking your time to have real normal human to human conversation is actually the way that clients want things to go too.
Gill Moakes (07:44.185)
Right. Using the language that your clients use, mirroring that back to them in your messaging. Literally, it's like cracking a code. When you do that, everything else just clicks into place. It's so important.
So how do we actually start having these conversations? You know, there's, there's a few easy ways to do this. The first one I would absolutely recommend you do, I recommend anyone who does this is reach out to your past or current clients or both. So if you've got clients that you've worked with who are, who still represent your ideal clients, absolutely ask them for a quick chat and let them know why.
You know, let them know you're refining your offers and would really love their insight and input. Honestly, if you're upfront about it, I think you'll be surprised about how many people are really happy to help. And the same with your current clients, you know, asking them if they can spare a little time, perhaps added on to the end of a coaching session, so that you can just ask a few targeted questions really makes a difference.
Gill Moakes (09:03.724)
Another one is you could create and I've done this before actually is create a little mini survey. So you can list lots of tools you can use for that survey monkey and things like that. Or you can just email your existing email list a list of questions and ask them if they'd be willing to complete it as a survey. You know, your social media following if you haven't got a big email list, you can use social media to do this asking a few
And I would keep it to a few, know, don't ask them to complete war and peace, just a few key questions about their biggest challenges and their deepest desires. Just that alone is going to give you so much useful information. And don't forget, it's really important to make sure that you're clear, that you're inviting them into a conversation. It's just, it's not a pitch. And I think you need to...
actually say that, you know, I am not going to talk to you about working with me on this call, because I genuinely want this to be about finding out information if you have time for me to do that. I do think that just takes that off of the table for them. I think that's important. Actually, if you're asking this, this is a favour for you. Let's not try manipulate it into a sales call, right?
So this is all about creating connection and gaining insight. It's not about closing a sale.
I think once you start having these conversations, something really magical happens. It's like you're not guessing anymore about your messaging, you're not guessing about what would and wouldn't resonate with your ideal clients. And you start, this is quite a subtle difference, but you start creating with your clients in mind instead of creating
Gill Moakes (11:12.674)
for them. It's almost like you and them together and you know what they need to hear instead of this kind of projecting what you think they should want to hear and therefore creating that. And you know what happens? People start paying attention. Your ideal clients will feel more seen and heard.
And they're going to feel that before they've even signed up to work with you. Right. Because when you do it like this, you're genuinely, you're not just selling your coaching, you're genuinely offering a solution to their most significant problems.
Gill Moakes (12:05.526)
And you know how I go on all the time about as coaches, we shouldn't be selling. We shouldn't be convincing, persuading. You know, we should be doing the legwork to build relationships and to create offers that really are genuinely no brainers for your ideal clients because they are exactly what they want and need.
it is a no it's a cliche to say they should sell themselves but it is a bit like that when you get this right.
Gill Moakes (12:41.746)
I'm going to set you a challenge today. And some of you aren't going to do it. Some of you are just going to be like, you're just going to listen to this episode passively and go on to the next episode or the next podcast that you're listening to. But some of you, I hope, will actually stop and think, huh, you know what, if that is that important, maybe I will actually try this. There's no harm in trying something, right?
I want you to reach out to five people and try and get on five calls within the next 10 days.
Get curious.
work out what questions you could ask that are going to really give you the insights you need.
Right? It's powerful. It's really simple. So many of us resist it, but it changes everything. And if it's something that you kind of know is important, but you've been putting it off, let this be that nudge to say, right, let's stop overthinking it. Start having conversations, real world, real life conversations. If you're a coach who wants to actually have impact.
Gill Moakes (14:01.398)
And if you know you get great results with your clients, then why would you not want to know as much as you can about them to make your messaging and your marketing just really on point? Honestly, if you do this, you are going to thank yourself later. And me, hopefully. So who's who's up for the challenge? Next 10 days, five calls. If you want
bonus points and this is an offer if if you want to take me up on it take me up on it if you don't don't but if you email info at Jillmox.com this is literally just coming to my head as I'm recording this I haven't thought it through at all but I this is how passionate I am about this if you email info at Jillmox.com with the five questions you want to put
to the five people you're going to have conversations with. Before you do it, I'll give you feedback on those five questions. And if there if there's a way of improving them, or if I think that tweaking them slightly or changing one or two of the questions might help, I'll give you that feedback so that you're really asking on point questions to get the most out of these client calls. Okay. And remember, there's lots of places if you honestly
can't think of a way to get on a call with a potential ideal client, then I would question whether you have thought carefully enough about the niche in which you want to be coaching. Right?
Gill Moakes (15:46.944)
seriously, this is that important. All right. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope you're joining with this little challenge, a challenge. And remember, email info at your most calm if you want some feedback on the five questions that you're going to ask five clients or potential clients or
past clients or current clients, I don't mind as long as they are five representatives of your ideal clients. And yeah, send me those five questions if you want to and I will review them before you get going. All right, have a wonderful week and I will see you back here same time, same place next week. Bye for now.
