e148 Coaches on Camera with Kerry Barrett mp3
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Gill Moakes: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome to the Heads Together podcast. I'm your host, Jo Mokes, and I'm very excited that you are joining me this week because I have a real treat for you. I am joined by Kerry Barrett. Now, Kerry is a camera, media, public speaking, and video trainer. And she works predominantly with business owners, with coaches like us, with lawyers, executives, and she teaches public speaking, she teaches presentation skills, and she teaches video presence and on camera readiness.
You know, I've been talking a lot recently about where I see marketing going and how, you know, this building of trust, really being able to see the whites of people's eyes and feel like, you know, that person. This is why I wanted to have Kerry on the show, because I really wanted someone to come on and debunk some of the problems that we kind of use as excuses of why not to create video [00:01:00] content.
I am with you. I do it too. So I thought, let's get Kerry on and get her to share with us some of the things that she feels are really important for us to move forward with this. I really, really like her. She's so genuine and she's actually an Emmy award winning TV news anchor. And she herself overcame a really debilitating fear of public speaking, which I think is really quite comforting for us.
You know, if she can go from this debilitating fear to an Emmy award winning TV news anchor, then we can record a few video shorts for LinkedIn, right? Kerry's got about 25 years of experience in front of the camera and she really does specialize in teaching people how they can become more relatable to their audience to make that genuine connection.
So I can't wait to hear what Kerry is going to share with us. So let's dive [00:02:00] into the episode.
Welcome, welcome to the Heads Together podcast. I'm Jill Mokes. I am obsessed with cutting through the noise when it comes to growing your business. Each week, via intimate coaching conversations and inspirational stories, I share what it really takes to get the results you want in a way that feels right to you.
I am all about attracting higher ticket opportunities, building authentic relationships, and creating the abundant, full fat version of your dream business. I mean, how many of us have beavered away creating a light version of what we really want? The thing is, I honestly believe when you're outstanding at what you do, there is no limit to what you can achieve.
So, are you ready to put our heads together and make it happen? Let's go. [00:03:00] Hey Keri!
Kerry Barrett: Hi, how are you? I am doing very well, Jill.
Gill Moakes: It's good to see you. It's so good to see you too, and I'm just glimpsing that beautiful snow outside of the window and it just looks gorgeous.
Kerry Barrett: We've had quite a bit of snow this year, and so today we got some more, so it's continuing to come down. Nice,
Gill Moakes: nice. I love it.
We get very slow jealous over here in the UK. Kerry, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really looking forward to this episode. I always try and have people on the show that I think are going to add something super useful for my audience. And as you know, a lot of my audience are coaches and. Being visible, being courageously visible, I think is something that [00:04:00] I work with my clients on a lot in terms of their marketing.
And one of the things that we come up against time and time again, is that fear of being on camera. And so I think you are just the perfect person to come on and just talk us through a little bit, how we can navigate that and how we can overcome it. But I wonder if we could kick off with you just telling us a little bit more You and how you came to be doing what you do now.
Kerry Barrett: Sure. Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me on a little bit about my background I was in the news industry. I was a news anchor or a presenter as you might say in the UK. Yes, I Did that for 20 years? I finished my career at NBC, which is a news network here in the United States in New York City and left the news industry about Five ish years ago and took the skills that I had [00:05:00] curated over that 20 year career, meaning learning how to speak effectively on camera and compellingly on camera.
And now I teach business owners and lawyers and executives those exact same skills so that they can create video for their website or for their social media or whatever it is. I overcame a. Crushingly debilitating fear of speaking. I'm an introvert. I am shy. And I overcame all of that for my first broadcast career.
And now of course, I'm tapping into that same sort of strength that I developed in order to be able to put out video content on my own business's behalf.
Gill Moakes: I really feel like that's going to be so comforting to some of the coaches listening because. I feel like we have this image, don't we, of you're either really good at something or you're no good at it.
People don't realize that actually it can be something that felt really unnatural to you in the beginning and you can overcome that and go on to become an award winning broadcaster, which is just the [00:06:00] complete opposite of what you would expect someone with this crippling fear of public speaking to be able to do.
So I feel like that's really comforting.
Kerry Barrett: If I can do it, I promise you, you can do it. I guarantee it. And by the way. You don't have to do it every day and you don't have to do it for hours on live TV. I promise creating short snippets for LinkedIn is absolutely doable.
Gill Moakes: Tell me a bit more about the work you do now.
How do you approach it? I guess is what I'm getting to. How do you approach helping someone who is in that place of, you know what? It feels so alien to me to try and talk to the camera. And also this is like, this is for me too. Because this is not my skillset either. I, even as we're doing this, I'm really self conscious because I know that right now I'm speaking to you on the left side of my screen and I should be speaking to the green dot like that, and I'm not.
Um, so. So I'm going to be [00:07:00] soaking
Kerry Barrett: this up like a sponge, trust me. You are in a judgment free zone here. So do not worry about where you're looking. Perfect. I would tell you as a client, yes, you should be looking at the little green dot, but don't sweat that right now. It's mindset and it's also the skills.
The mindset is sprinkled in throughout the work that I do with my clients. For example, I'll sort of walk you through what a program might look like. And 70 percent of my program is what I deliver to everybody. And then the remaining 30 percent is really tailored to make this process or this journey exactly what that person needs.
It takes into account where they are, what their skill sets are, what their challenges are, and where they're looking to take this as well. You may want to create. Webinars that are live for two hours at a time. And while there are skills that certainly overlap, no matter whatever [00:08:00] platform or however it is that you're looking to use them, you have a slightly different way to practice than if you are interested in creating 30 seconds snippets for Tik TOK or for LinkedIn.
So. The two skills while delivering to a camera is the same on both the way that you practice and some of the things that you need to get really good at in one situation versus the other are slightly different. So I start by always doing a very deep dive in terms of what's your goal? Where are you?
What have you tried before? Have you done this? Have you worked this? What is the issue here? Where does this baggage come into? And that deep dive is how I create that remaining 30 percent of the curriculum. The second element that I bring people through is something called a Gallup's strength assessment.
And if you've ever taken one, you're familiar with it. If not really, what we look to do is we look to figure out what the top five strengths are that you naturally have, [00:09:00] because while a good part of designed around, you know, lessening the flaws or the errors and building on the skills that are, you know, good for lack of a better word.
That was very ineloquent the way that I said that, but part of good will do. That's fine. Yeah. There you go. One of the other things is if you want to be authentic, I want you to bring the things that you're already very strong at. So let's figure out what they are in terms of your strengths and let's figure out how they apply to.
Your video content and the way that you're showing up on camera And then we go through the whole process of you know your shot setup and your logistics and your lighting and your gear and What you shoot on and what the camera settings need to be on your phone And by the way, you don't need anything other than your phone your computer to shoot on and then we go into the actual delivery portion.
So how is it that you showcase energy and look [00:10:00] happy and vocal variety and physical performance and hand gestures and facial expressions and all that other stuff. And then we go into actually creating the content. So towards the end of the program, I do some content creation. We practice, review, rehearse, critique, feedback, and then I like to bring my clients on.
I don't force them to, but if they're up for it, and so far most of them have been, I like to bring them on for a live stream and LinkedIn. That way we get some additional content creation and we have a chance to actually. I mean,
Gill Moakes: I can't think of anything that you've left out there. I'm just thinking if someone really wants this, because I don't, I'll be honest.
I didn't realize that you actually advise on all of those kinds of logistics as well. You know, Yeah. The kind of, here's how to think about your backdrop and here's how to light it, and all of that kind of thing. So it's a real comprehensive, like everything you need to know kind of program.
Kerry Barrett: Absolutely, and I [00:11:00] would say this, you know, oftentimes I'll hear people say that the reasons they're not creating video are time and tech.
Meaning that they, they, they don't understand tech and that they're time-wise, they're worried that it's gonna be a very heavy lift. And so I make sure that they have a process and it's easy to do. Is it going to be as quick as just. Typing out a text post. No, there is an element of work that comes along with creating a video.
That said, it is very well worth it in terms of your ROI. So let's create a process for you so that you have a very easy way to do it. Let's make sure that your gear and your tech are set up so that you can record easily, and then we move into really what ends up being the bulk of the. True pain for most people, which is that they absolutely hate doing it because they don't like listening to themselves.
They don't like watching themselves. They feel silly. They're worried they're going to make a mistake. They don't know what to say. You know, all of those other things. So the bulk of the program is really spent on delivering those elements.
Gill Moakes: [00:12:00] Yeah.
Kerry Barrett: Yeah.
Gill Moakes: And I definitely gonna. Sort of probe for a bit on, on that later.
I suppose one thing that just came up for me when you were talking about that ROI and how worth it is to invest that bit of extra time to create video content, something came up. I've been talking about a lot recently, and I think that is that. I just see this change coming this year more than any, more than ever before, I think with the whole onslaught of AI.
That kind of looking someone in the whites of the eyes, hearing them speak, actually knowing and trusting that you're having a real interaction, albeit you're just viewing or listening. I think that's going to be more important than ever. I think all of these long form posts and things like that on, on LinkedIn, they're really.
Turning into white noise, aren't they? Just because of how much AI is around.
Kerry Barrett: Oh my gosh. And I can't, I cannot tell you the last time I read through a long form post from beginning to [00:13:00] end, nobody does. They skim them at the most. Yes, exactly. So I, I am 100 percent in agreement. And I, I also think video is going to become one of those things and it.
May already be to this stage where it's no longer a nice to have. It's a need to have. And I sort of look at it the way that you looked at a website. Maybe let's say 15 years ago, did every single business have a website? No. Could you maybe get away without having one? You probably could. These days, if you don't have a website, you're not legitimate and it's going to be the same thing with video videos moving into that direction as well.
Gill Moakes: I think you're absolutely right. I would never invest money in anything where there was no website. That I could stalk around and really understand and get to know the person behind it. Just wouldn't. So, yeah, I completely agree with you. So it's another reason why this is just so important. I'm so happy to have you on to talk to us about it.
Thank [00:14:00] you. Thank you. The tech overwhelm is a big thing, isn't it? Yes. People's kind of, Overcomplicating it in their mind, mostly around what they need to be able to get going when, you know, really, if you've got one of these, you're kind of good to go. You can create a lot on your phone, right? Absolutely. Is the quality good enough?
Kerry Barrett: Oh my gosh, yes, you so there's three things you need to create video you that you absolutely must have There are some other things that are nice to have and we can talk about those But the three things that you absolutely must have are a face a voice and a phone That's all you need So if you can check all three of those boxes, you're good to go my friend you can start creating video today I shoot on my phone.
I actually have two phones. I have a samsung and I have an iphone I Personally prefer the video on my Samsung. There's plenty of people who prefer the iPhone. It does not matter which one you have. I set it up on a very simple telescoping [00:15:00] tripod that I got from Amazon for 30 American dollars. It fits in my, my handbag, my purse.
And, I set it up on my desk, I snap my phone into the little holder, and I am good to go. That's really legitimately all you need. Your phone has the ability, if you have a phone that was made in the last couple of years. You have a phone that can shoot at the very least 4K and probably 8K. You will never use 8K because it will take you 10, 847 years to upload.
Upload?
Absolutely!
Kerry Barrett: But you would
Gill Moakes: recommend putting
Kerry Barrett: your phone onto the 4K setting? to shoot 4K or 1080. Either one is fine. What all I'm saying is that you have absolute broadcast quality abilities on your smartphone where people tend to get stuck. Why things don't look good is because they have bad lighting and they [00:16:00] have bad audio.
Those are the things that degrade the quality. If you have a phone made in the last three years, you have everything you need in your hand to make good quality video. Wow. So
Gill Moakes: when you say the audio, would you recommend that we have some kind of external mic to use when we're
Kerry Barrett: recording using our phone?
That's such a good question. If you're going to be outside and walking around, I would absolutely 100 percent suggest it. If you're going to be inside, there is a little bit of wiggle room and it depends on a couple of things. How far away from your phone you are. Let's say you're a yoga teacher and you are looking to demonstrate a yoga pose.
And so you need to be able to be seen from head to toe and you're going to be significantly further away from your phone than you are if you're just shooting from like you know, your torso up and your clothes. So in that situation, you should absolutely have a microphone. It also [00:17:00] depends a little bit on the acoustics of your room.
If your room is full of a lot of hard, flat surfaces like walls and floor and there's no carpet or Curtains or furniture that absorbs some of that echo, then you probably definitely want a microphone as well. I like to use a microphone no matter when I'm shooting because I can see the difference. If I forget to put it on, do I delete the video and not post it?
No, I still use it, but I like to wear this little clip on. It's a magnetized lapel mic. It sticks onto my shirt with a magnet. That's so handy. It's pretty inexpensive. I got this one from Amazon. I spent a hundred and I think 19 again. US dollars. Yep. And it's really convenient. I clip it on. Charges in its case and I can use it with my iPhone.
I can use it with my Android and I can use it on my laptop. I'm actually using it to record right now. And for the price, the [00:18:00] quality is significantly different. Is it a perfect podcasting 400 microphone? No, I have one of those too, but I got to haul it out of its thing and I got to set it up. This is so easy to just snip to clip on.
And I use that.
Gill Moakes: Yeah. I think that's kind of good advice to probably use one whenever you can in my experience. I think people can tolerate a little less than perfect on the visual, but people cannot tolerate bad sound. No. I can't. Anyway, maybe that's just me.
Kerry Barrett: No, you're 100 percent accurate. And especially true on a podcast.
You know, we're recording this podcast, the video component, but there'll be an audio component as well. And if somebody is not watching and they're just listening, well, your ear for lack of a better term has a very. Sort of narrow field of focus. It's focused on the quality of the [00:19:00] audio. And if it's sounds amateur, that's what your ear becomes trained on.
So I would, I 100 percent agree with you. We have a little more generosity in us when it comes to issues with video than we do with audio.
Gill Moakes: Yeah, I completely agree. I know that for myself. I can't, I cannot listen to bad audio. I have so many questions. I have question overload. I think it's, it's because it's something that I'm so fascinated in for myself, not just for my listeners.
You use like a tripod that you set up on your desk and you're kind of, you know, recording that way. One question I have is around what makes a really good talking head video in terms of the distance from the phone or the camera, because this is something that I think my listeners and certainly my clients and my.
students inside the coaching business academy are really keen to do is the [00:20:00] LinkedIn shorts. That's something that we really want to get into the habit of doing more. Cause I think those are going to gain traction more and more on LinkedIn. And I just wondered, you know, I look at some of these and some of them are really so good.
They're so natural. And I just wondered what your advice is on how far away from the phone should we position ourselves? So how big should our head be
Kerry Barrett: in the shot? Right. So you should not be a disembodied floating head. You should have some, I like to call it social distance. So if you think about how far you might be, so generally speaking, there's a couple of elements to this.
Again, it depends a little bit on whether you're standing or sitting, but generally you want to have at least your shoulders, chest, and maybe part of your torso showing as well. At least that when you're recording a vertical video for a short. So your
Gill Moakes: head should be fairly near.
Kerry Barrett: The top of the screen.
Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And [00:21:00] when you think about your natural social distance, and yes, there are some minor changes or differences depending on what we're comfortable with. But generally speaking, what a social distance, if you're having a conversation with somebody might be at, let's say like a networking event or something, it's usually somewhere.
And I'm, I'm going to use. American distance.
Gill Moakes: Most of my listeners are American.
Kerry Barrett: Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's like two or three feet. So if you think about that in terms of how you're shooting on your camera, much like a mirror, if you're standing two feet away from your mirror, it looks like the image is four feet away because you've got the two feet sort of on the other side So when you're shooting with your camera, I usually shoot about a foot and a half away from my camera.
And then when somebody is watching it, it looks about three feet [00:22:00] away, which is generally speaking sort of that sweet spot when it comes to social distance.
Gill Moakes: Mm. Okay. That's really good to know. That's something that's been on my mind. So. Thinking then about coaches, they want to get into the recording video.
They want to be consistent with it. So they don't want to make it this really big onerous thing. What are your tips for us around? Making this doable.
Kerry Barrett: I see a lot of conversations on LinkedIn about, do I need to have a lot of fancy editing? Do I need to have all sorts of B roll, which is like background video and emojis here and gifts and all this other stuff.
And the answer is no, there is a minimalistic style that's coming back on LinkedIn and has been around on Tik TOK for a while to Instagram. So it's still a little bit more curated, but. That is changing. Also, all you [00:23:00] need is again, your face to the camera and talking in terms of how to make the process itself a little bit easier.
So I create, I wouldn't say I don't have video posts. seven days a week on LinkedIn, but probably at least five ish. And I, I batch my content. So I will, you know, I hate doing hair and makeup, but I've done my hair and makeup for this podcast. So as soon as we are done recording, I'm getting on my phone and I'm hopping on and I'm creating some videos.
Yeah,
Gill Moakes: I, I am so with you on that. If I've got to get all done up for something, I'm totally making the most of it.
Kerry Barrett: 100%. I'm going to shoot 15 videos today. The funny thing is, is I actually have a pile of different shirts behind me because I can change from one to the other, to the other, to the other. So I was going to ask if you do that when you're batch creating, you just change the shirt and then I [00:24:00] just changed the shirt.
Keep the hair and the makeup the same. Maybe I'll change out my earrings or something, but only if I'm having some extra time on my hands. So I will change my shirts and I've got a pile of them stacked behind me right now. You can't see it if you're watching this, but it's on the couch and I will just go through creating.
So, so when you are set up and you've got your tripod set up and your phone is on it and you've got your distance Like now that you've got the settings for your sort of quote unquote studio, go for it. Now, how are, is it that you actually figure out what you want to say? Depends a little bit on your process.
There's really two ways that I do it. I will either completely riff, meaning I know what I want to talk about and I have a general sense, but I haven't really, I haven't gone through and written it out. If I have a very specific story that I know I can get lost in and I may have a tendency to elaborate on points that I do not have time to elaborate on because I want to make a 30 second or a 45 second video on LinkedIn, like I will [00:25:00] manuscript word for word what I want to say in that 45 seconds.
And then I will either get as close to that manuscript as I can, or I will turn it into a keyword outline, right? So whatever it is that I want to say, and I'll, you know, have three main points and a couple of sub points under each one of them. And then go through and you can tape that underneath your phone onto the.
Tripod so that you can reference it pretty, pretty easily. One thing you want to be aware of that is you don't want to be looking down and away for an extended period of time and then back up at the camera because it's going to be very clear what you're doing. You know, look away as you're thinking about something and grab a, you know, an eyeful of your notes and then come back on the camera and And deliver that way.
The other option that is out there, and I, I hesitate a little bit to mention this, but I'm going to mention it because I think it's really helpful. It's really helpful when you get the hang of it is to [00:26:00] use one of those teleprompter apps. Now I will tell you this. Yes. Reading from a teleprompter is a skill in and of itself to sound conversational and sound like you are not reading when in fact you are, is.
I mean, I have a, I have a free course about it up on my website. It's called the Teleprompter Mastery Course because I find a teleprompter to be amazingly helpful. It's one take from beginning to end. It requires far less editing. You can script out exactly what you want to say, but. It can be very difficult to read without sounding like you're reading.
So you need to understand how to do that.
Gill Moakes: I've experimented with teleprompters. So Riverside that we're recording in now, that has a teleprompter function in it. And I have experimented with using it, but I must admit, when I listen back to episodes where I've tried using that, Well, first of all, I don't tend to script my episodes anyway, so actually it wasn't that natural for me to [00:27:00] have a script in the first place and then trying to keep up with reading.
I found like I wasn't really present in feeling into what I was actually saying. I didn't sound very natural.
Kerry Barrett: 100 percent right. The challenge there is that people get so focused on reading the words in front of them that they are disconnected to what they're saying. They become focused on instead getting the words exactly right.
The only reason that I know how to use the teleprompters because I did it for 20 years in the news business and I know how to read the teleprompter and sounds like I'm not reading a teleprompter and it is a skill that you can absolutely learn if it's something that you want to tackle. But it is not necessary to create videos on LinkedIn.
It's just another nice to have if you've had time to build the skill set that goes, you know, along with it.
Gill Moakes: Yeah. So maybe that's phase two, isn't it? Once you've kind of overcome all of the nerves and all of that kind of thing, maybe when you're starting to think about improving your [00:28:00] videos, maybe that's when that comes in.
Kerry Barrett: No. And I would say this, you know, I do have. that are more prone to try the teleprompter than others. And what I've found is that my lawyer clients absolutely love the teleprompter because they like to get everything exactly right. That's their training. And so for those types of clients, it works very well as long as they get the skills down for others who are, you know, in the coaching space, for example, they're much more likely to want to.
Quote unquote, sort of ad lib what it is that they're going to say, you know, they have a plan. They have a roadmap at the very least, but then they're able to show up on the camera and just sort of riff about it.
Gill Moakes: And I think that's really with good reason, isn't it? Because if you think of the difference, like a lawyer is.
You know, really wanting to instill confidence in their knowledge, whereas a coach is trying to build a relationship. And I think it's, it's, there is definitely a [00:29:00] difference there. Absolutely. Which brings us very, very nicely to something that I think is a huge topic, which is perfectionism. So, you know, the coaches, they like to get it right.
They like it to be precise and perfect. And I think other people, not necessarily so much. And I think perfectionism is something that also puts people off creating video content because they think it has to be some version of. Perfection in their head before it's good enough to post. What would you say to that?
Kerry Barrett: Well, you don't need to be Meryl Streep or Daniel Day Lewis to be able to create video content. Perfection is, it's not a thing. I've never come across perfection in anything. It doesn't exist. And so if you are getting caught in that, Recognize it for what it is, which is your ego trying to keep you from taking a risk.
It's trying to keep you [00:30:00] from Being exposed to trolls and from you know Potentially looking silly none none of those things have to happen by the way and nobody is judging you the way that you're judging Yourself all of that Is your ego trying to protect you? I mean, I have been making videos, including my broadcasting career for 25 years, I have won Emmy awards and other awards, and even for the newscasts that I won Emmys for, they were not perfect.
I was not perfect. And I've never put out a perfect piece of video content. It does not mean that it's not. Good enough. And if you are rambling nonsensically because you've totally lost train of what it is that you're going to say, you know what? Sure. Go back and re record that one. Go back and edit.
Because you're not doing anybody any favors. But if you are focused on the fact that you said, Um, once, [00:31:00] or that you didn't hit that word with exactly the right emphasis that you wanted, or you want to lose 20 pounds, or you want to wait until you get your hair done, or you don't like the way that you sound.
All of that stuff is just noise.
Gill Moakes: It really is, and it's, I think it's missing the point going back to what we said about why video is going to become more and more important. I think as we move in audio to a, to a lesser extent and video, I think it's just going to become way more important because we can't trust the written word anymore.
No, people really need, if they want to build a meaningful connection with their audience and therefore build the trust, because we know that clients need to like, know, like and trust us to pay us. Yeah. Then if we want to do that, we are going to have to. Not, I was about to say, we're going to have to get good at this.
We're going to have to do this. We're going to have [00:32:00] to experiment with it. We're going to have to let ourselves fail forward and practice until we feel more comfortable with it. So yeah, I love that. And you're right. There is no such thing as perfection. No one puts, because also it's so subjective, isn't it?
What's perfection to you isn't going to be the same as what's perfection to me. 100%.
Kerry Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. And, and neither to somebody else and somebody else might've preferred to have a man deliver the video or somebody with brown hair or something. I mean, that it's so personal and so, so subjective that all you can do is be the best version of yourself.
Gill Moakes: Yeah, absolutely right. What do you see coming up time and time again, as the main reasons people avoid creating video? What are the excuses that you see come up?
Kerry Barrett: I hear time and tech a lot. Oh, I don't have the time and I don't understand the tech. And those are two very easy fixes. If you, like I said, if you have a phone, you've got all the tech you [00:33:00] need.
And if once you have a process, then yeah, you do need to expect it to take a little bit longer than simply writing copy, but not that much longer if you know what you're doing and you have a process. And so those two things are generally sort of the superficial pain points. What really stops people is the same thing that stops people from getting up on a stage and speaking publicly.
It's that fear of being judged, the fear of looking silly, the fear of not liking, you know, what we look like or what we sound like. You know, there was a study that was done. I think it was done at the University of Santa Barbara, California. It was done a while ago, and it was two groups of students. The same as they could possibly be in terms of male, female, IQ, academic, career, etc.
And there are two groups of ten, I think it [00:34:00] was, and they assigned each group a task. And I can't remember exactly what the task was, but One group was left alone to do that task, and the other group was recorded with a camera as they were doing that task. And they found that, you know, regardless of whether they watched it back, they did a questionnaire at the end of the assignment, if you will, and they found that the group who had the camera on them had significantly lower self confidence.
felt more poorly about themselves because they were being videoed. Nobody was watching it outside of them, but they became hyper aware of themselves. And when they watch the video, they became aware of their quote unquote, perceived flaws. You know, like, Oh, my nose is too big. Or I don't like my forehead.
Or, 10 pounds that I gained. Like they just became aware of all these things that they had in their [00:35:00] mind that were, you know, In their eyes, flaws and that shows you, I think that's a really good way to highlight the mental issues or the internal struggles that we have with putting ourselves on camera.
All that stuff right there. That's the reason nobody really wants to do it. It's because It makes them feel self conscious and nobody wants to feel self conscious. Nobody wants to feel badly about themselves But the only way to get over that is just you have to do it You have to recognize that all those feelings only in you Nobody else is running you through that fine tooth comb that you're running yourself through So in order to get through that you're never going to feel Like, oh, suddenly I feel better about my nose or my forehead or my weight, even though I haven't lost it.
That, that's never going to happen. So in order to get comfortable with it, you have [00:36:00] to do it and start in a low stakes environment. Start with recording yourself with no intention of publishing. Just get comfortable opening up your phone and riffing into it for a couple of seconds. That's where it starts.
Gill Moakes: That's such a good tip and I could not agree with you more. Just start doing it and, and don't even have the faintest intention of doing anything with the content. Just keep doing it. Something I've found helps for me is that I say to myself, I live in the real world. People see me every time I go out of the house.
People hear my voice every time I queue up. in the coffee shop, you know, we are existing in the real world. We can exist on camera too. We're no different. And I think for me, that has always worked to kind of get rid of that. Any feeling that I have to be in any way different on camera to who, if we were sitting in.
in here in this room [00:37:00] and chatting to each other, we would have exactly the same conversation. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think that's really important and the closer you can get to treating it that naturally,
I
Gill Moakes: feel like the better the videos because people don't, people are so bored with all the polished absolute perfection, aren't they?
People don't, they're not really interested in that now anyway. No.
Kerry Barrett: No, absolutely not. Even executives like at large companies are doing walk and talk selfie videos outside when they're on their morning walk. Uh, my lawyer clients are doing the same thing. That is what is resonating. And you're right.
Lawyers have a different set of goals and they're talking to a different set of clientele and different set of peers. And let's say Perhaps a coaches. And so you want to be mindful of that, but it's replicating that natural conversation as closely as you can and treating that little red light as, or that green light, or whatever it is that you're [00:38:00] talking into as if it were a person.
I'm imagining you now just. Sitting in front of me and having this conversation with you. I'm not talking to a computer or camera. I'm talking to you and I just want to underscore additionally something that you said that's so important. You said, you know, we live in this world. I, I, people hear my voice.
I go to the coffee shop and I order and they, nobody says, Oh, I don't like your voice. One of the. Biggest challenges for people outside of watching themselves back is listening to themselves. They hate it. They absolutely hate it. And that's because there's a disconnect because the way that we sound to ourselves is different because we're listening to our voices.
through the filter of the mechanisms of our jaw and our muscles and our tendons and all that other stuff. Whereas somebody else who's listening to us is just listening to us and really it's purest form. Our voice is purest form. [00:39:00] It's not filtered through anything other than distance from one person to the next.
And so they're hearing your voice exactly as. They hear it every single day. They don't have that disconnect. To them, your voice is just your voice, and it's always been your voice. They don't pay any attention to what it sounds like, and if it sounds different, it just is what it is. And so I think sometimes recognizing that, again, others are viewing us and listening to us exactly as they would if we were walking down the street having a conversation is helpful.
Gill Moakes: I think that is really helpful. Such a good point. And I know that when I first started podcasting, I couldn't bear to listen to the episodes back. I hated the sound of my voice. And now I can actually listen to a podcast, especially if it's like, like we're having now. An episode with a guest who's come on.
I want to listen to the conversation back because I want to have the [00:40:00] conversation without the contribution that I'm making. I want to be able to listen to the guest. Yeah. And, um, so I'll often listen to it back. It doesn't even make me cringe in the least now. I'm just so neutral about my own voice now.
And so it is something we can just get over. This has been such a valuable conversation because I think that coaches want to do this. They really want to do this, but they do have nerves around it and they do have a lot of perfectionism around it. So first of all, I want to know if, if someone is listening and they would love some support with this, I really hope that, I hope my clients listening are absolutely going to say, yes, Jill, give me Kerry's number because how can they reach out to you?
What's the best way for people to get in touch if they want to work with you on this and really get good? Uh, doing what I believe is going to be a really important piece of marketing moving forward.
Kerry Barrett: Thank you for that. I appreciate it. And I, I agree. I [00:41:00] think it's no longer a nice to have it is the need to have the best way people can connect with me is through LinkedIn.
I post content there every day on overcoming fear on tips for getting on camera on ways to speak compellingly. Your shot set up the whole nine. So I think regardless of whether we end up working together, you find the content on LinkedIn to be, I hope very helpful. I've written it with you in mind, and you'll also find my free resources there.
If you're interested in setting up a free strategy call, there's a link to do that on my profile as well. It's really the hub where all of my information is. So find me on LinkedIn and you'll find all of my resources there as well.
Gill Moakes: That is perfect. And of course, I'm going to link to that in the show notes as well.
So people can go and check that out. Anything you want to wrap up for us today in terms of what we haven't covered and what you think might be really important? for our listeners to hear.
Kerry Barrett: I'll [00:42:00] leave with this sort of thought. This is one of the biggest mistakes I see people making on camera and it's that they're not delivering with enough energy.
Video is energetically flattening. And so conceptually, I want you to think about this. Imagine you're at a busy restaurant and you're with a party of eight and you're at one side of the table on one end and the person to whom you're trying to speak is on the other end of the table on the other side.
What are some of the things that you would do to make sure that they heard you over the noise of the restaurant? You'd probably lean in when something was important. You might use, you know, you're referencing these three things happened. You might hold up three fingers. Your facial expressions are amplified.
Your body language is amplified. Conceptually speaking, in order to overcome that energy deficit that video creates, that's how you want to be thinking about showing up on camera. For most people, it is a significant bump in energy and it will feel incredibly weird and awkward and uncomfortable, but recognize [00:43:00] that it looks perfectly normal.
So when you are practicing, practice with that thought in mind. Kimmy, that's
Gill Moakes: bloody genius. That is such a practical tip of picture, that's going to stay in my mind, picturing someone at the other end of the table and you're right. You would automatically, you'd be talking, just that bit more, more animated.
You
Kerry Barrett: project your voice a little bit more, all of it. That's exactly what you want to be doing. That's
Gill Moakes: so good. Thank you. That's a very good tip. Love it. Thank you so much for coming onto the show today. This has been one of those really, you know, I always want every episode to be actionable, but sometimes I am aware that most of my episodes are solo.
You know, I think people get sick to death at the sound of my voice. They're going to be so relieved I've had another guest on. So thank you so much. Really
Kerry Barrett: actionable one. I love it. It has been my absolute pleasure. Thank you. And I feel honored that you don't have guests on all the time when you pick me.
So [00:44:00] thanks. I don't. Yeah,
Gill Moakes: absolutely. I'm really, really grateful to you for coming on. It was a really conscious decision, actually, that I made sort of last year, I used to have a lot more guests on to the show. And I kind of thought, you know what, I really want to honor why people subscribe to this podcast.
Yeah.
Gill Moakes: the kind of content that I share on this podcast and the things I talk about with my audience in mind. And I became aware that sometimes when I was having a guest on, it wasn't always in the best service of my audience. It might be because it was someone that I just thought was super interesting or, you know, and it was about me.
Right. And so. Now, it's much more about, I think this person has some, so much to add specifically for my listeners. So, I'm really grateful and also for me too. Well, thank you so much. You're a great interviewer. Thank you, Carrie. I appreciate that. Coming from you, I really appreciate that. Thank you [00:45:00] so much.
Thank you. Bye for now.
I hope you enjoyed this episode and that getting our heads together this week has filled your mind with what's possible. If you love the show, would you do me a massive favour please? Would you leave a five star rating on Apple Podcasts? It would really help you put more heads together, reach more ears and expand more minds.
Until next
week, bye for now.
